Melbourne Air Traffic Control
The intent of the requirement to report ready approaching the holding point would be that you are not on the Tower frequency while you are still the responsibility of the SMC. I have heard Tower tell aircraft to go back to SMC when they are still on E but yet to cross A (this is at Melbourne) because taxiing traffic is still on SMC. I have also heard aircraft request that SMC tell Tower that they are ready! Ready in turn is another of my pet hates as there is no such call.
If ATC decide that another aircraft is going to be given a takeoff clearance before you then there is nothing you can do to change that decision.
If ATC decide that another aircraft is going to be given a takeoff clearance before you then there is nothing you can do to change that decision.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The AIP states at or approaching the holding point. Personally I think that it is unprofessional to call early. I have seen this happen in Melbourne at intersection Juliet when SMC had cleared aircraft X to Juliet who had been on taxiway Alpha and the tower cleared aircraft Y to Juliet who called ready whilst taxiing down Sierra. Aircraft Y had to break suddenly when X taxied in front of it as both thought they had right of way. Why would you call ready early if you still have taxiways to cross? Not a clever thing to do. Rules are there for a purpose - safety. Everybody gets their fair turn.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A legal question. In the above case, if aircraft X had to break suddenly because aircraft Y had prematurely called ready and both the SMC and TWR controllers had cleared both aircraft to intersection Juliet, who is responsible if a flight attendant in aircraft X was moving around the cabin and fell over and was injured due to the sudden breaking?
In this case hopefully the pilot would query who was giving way before sudden braking was required. Separation on taxiways is a joint controller/pilot responsibility.
Heard the following exchange recently at Melbourne:
Aircraft: "Qantas 787 could you pass on to the Tower we are ready."
ATC: "You are big boys now, do it yourself"
The QF aircraft was taking the whole calling ready first thing to new levels of ridiculous but the ATC response was childish. This is the same controller who will jump down the microphone and berate you for any small infraction but doesn't want to acknowledge his (and it is a he) own mistakes such as giving taxi instructions using the wrong flight number.
Aircraft: "Qantas 787 could you pass on to the Tower we are ready."
ATC: "You are big boys now, do it yourself"
The QF aircraft was taking the whole calling ready first thing to new levels of ridiculous but the ATC response was childish. This is the same controller who will jump down the microphone and berate you for any small infraction but doesn't want to acknowledge his (and it is a he) own mistakes such as giving taxi instructions using the wrong flight number.
One of my pet hates is waiting until we either stop or slow down at a holding point/taxiway intersection before then giving us a clearance to continue.
Please if at all possible don't do that, especially on A crossing 27, it takes a while and a lot of power to get a heavy moving again.
One particular evening you did it to me 3 times after landing on 16 and on each occasion it wasn't necessary.
Generally however I find YMML ATC good.
Please if at all possible don't do that, especially on A crossing 27, it takes a while and a lot of power to get a heavy moving again.
One particular evening you did it to me 3 times after landing on 16 and on each occasion it wasn't necessary.
Generally however I find YMML ATC good.
Last edited by ACMS; 11th Jul 2017 at 01:33.
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Harbour Master Place
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of my pet hates is waiting until you either stop or slow down at a holding point/taxiway intersection before then giving clearance to continue.
I don't work at ML so I can't say for sure why the stopping happens but a likely cause is the ADC being busy with something else. The SMC has to coordinate the crossing, so if the ADC is tied up doing something else, that could be why you stop for no apparent reason. I'd like to think that most of us do try to keep you moving as much/often as we possibly can
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Harbour Master Place
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't work at ML so I can't say for sure why the stopping happens but a likely cause is the ADC being busy with something else. The SMC has to coordinate the crossing, so if the ADC is tied up doing something else, that could be why you stop for no apparent reason. I'd like to think that most of us do try to keep you moving as much/often as we possibly can
It's just frustrating sometimes when you see the picture developing and attempt to put yourself in the position to maximise the opportunity to cross or keep it rolling for takeoff, then things come to a stop... immediately followed by go go go, hurry hurry hurry.
Does anyone know when the taxiway works are meant to be completed? China has built new airports in the same timeframe diggers are still playing with dirt on Alpha.
Are they just milking the taxpayer?
Are they just milking the taxpayer?
Entire airports and supporting infrastructure (High speed rail, highways bridges etc) have appeared out of the ocean in the time it takes Australia to play with some sand.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is there any doubt?
I'll bet the bill for compliance alone would build a whole airport in any other country.
With any infrastructure project compliance with dreamt up rules, red tape and bureaucracy makes up roughly one third of the total cost of the project.
The safety, security, greenies, local government departments, state government departments federal government departments all parasites with their fingers in the till.
I'll bet the bill for compliance alone would build a whole airport in any other country.
With any infrastructure project compliance with dreamt up rules, red tape and bureaucracy makes up roughly one third of the total cost of the project.
The safety, security, greenies, local government departments, state government departments federal government departments all parasites with their fingers in the till.
The safety, security, greenies, local government departments, state government departments federal government departments all parasites with their fingers in the till
Originally Posted by Bula
in my humble opinion, Alpha turning into Echo is approaching the holding point and fair game.
That's bull.
in my humble opinion, Alpha turning into Echo is approaching the holding point and fair game.
That's bull.
You all do it guys, so don't get too narky when the opposition does it to you.
In all seriousness, it's usually first come, first served. But there are times when, to reduce overall delays we'll go out of sequence. For example, traffic inbound to T1 with a queue building for departure at Papa. To help SMC out we might try and clear those ones first.
Or we'll go with left turner/right turner if we can apply visual separation upwind til the radar guys get 3nm. We can then clear the second acft when the first is 1800m down the runway and airborne. We can do that with traffic on the same SID but we can't guarantee visual separation all the way to Sydney. Or a heavy may have called ready first but with traffic on final, we would only get the heavy away, but if we go Medium first then Heavy, we'll get both away.
In 27/34 mode (with deps to the NE off 34), it's better sequencing to go with a 27 dep then a 34 then a 27 etc to ensure acft don't get bunched up on similar tracks.
With the A380's runway occupancy time, its best to get them going in a suitable gap - we might not get another for a while, so it causes a bit of pain short term with wake turbulence but at least they're out of the way.
Believe me, we DO NOT give preferential treatment to anybody. All we are interested in is getting everyone off our frequency as soon as possible!