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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 03:48
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Lighting

Like the issue earlier with Stop Bars, the intensity of runway lights during LVO is carved in stone..

ANY deviation from the prescribed settings/procedures can have untold consequences for those who exercise their own judgement rather than follow the Word Of The Lord(s).

Several controllers have been made an example of.... end result is GA Drivers' post above.

Last edited by KeepItRolling; 2nd Jan 2017 at 03:49. Reason: Selliing
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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 06:15
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The reason for not changing intensity was relayed to the airlines when installed. The high intensity lights are linked to the transmissometers which provide the RVR. If the intensity is lowered, the RVR readout in the tower. I.e. Brighter lights, better penetration, duller lights, less penetration. With lower intensity, the RVR readout may be less than your minimum. ATC is not permitted to lower the intensity when you break visual as this could affect the following aircraft. When changing from low to high, the readout does not immediately update as the system needs about 15 seconds to compute the readings from the three transmissometers for that runway.
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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 06:58
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Last time it was this way, I departed with the visors down to cut out the glare it was so bad. Surely this has to constitute a safety issue?? Who hewed the stone? Casa or Airservices?

The runway lighting I can understand, but does the taxi way lighting have that much impact on the transmissometers??

Also, arrivals on 16, departures on 27 (as in my sunvisor case) surely this could be adjusted for the departure rwy as it has no Impact on arrivals? It just doesn't make sense.
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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 08:11
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GA Driver, if you feel it is a safety issue, submit an incident report to ATSB and your company. If enough people do this they might be forced to look at a solution.
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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 09:07
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Yet 20 years ago at my previous airport the lights could be set at any range between 10% and 100% (stage 2-6 I believe). The transmissometers knew what the intensity was and calculated the RVR accordingly.
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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 09:21
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AerocatS2A Done. But I'm not holding my breath..... On a side note, do you recall the s/e climb gradient of the shrike? That might get you thinking.....

Now back to my question!
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Old 2nd Jan 2017, 11:56
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I have data dumped the Shrike! I remember it went up, but not much.
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Old 14th Jan 2017, 08:24
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What's happening to the old control tower?
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 07:05
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It has "concrete cancer" and I have heard that it will be demolished but not sure when.
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 07:37
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Before retirement one of my tasks was training ML ATC for the INTAS. As such I came into contact with just about every other part of the new tower project and I queried the fate of the old tower.

The old tower does have heritage value but this doesn't mean that it has to be preserved. Some artefacts Will be and there are also photographic records.

The new tower was built using a slip ring which moved up as concrete was poured. The new tower will probably be demolished in reverse. I.e. A ring will move down and carry the rubble.

As DB said, the old tower has concrete cancer. It was never painted when constructed thereby allowing the concrete to absorb atmospheric carbon dioxide which eventually reaches the steel rods causing the cancer. The cancer was treated in the mid 90s and the tower painted.

To prevent cancer in the new tower, the builders used the same technique used on road bridges and painted it.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 04:37
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The reason for not changing intensity was relayed to the airlines when installed. The high intensity lights are linked to the transmissometers which provide the RVR. If the intensity is lowered, the RVR readout in the tower. I.e. Brighter lights, better penetration, duller lights, less penetration. With lower intensity, the RVR readout may be less than your minimum. ATC is not permitted to lower the intensity when you break visual as this could affect the following aircraft. When changing from low to high, the readout does not immediately update as the system needs about 15 seconds to compute the readings from the three transmissometers for that runway.
Unfortunately the AIP doesn't seem to have kept up with technology. Reference AD 1.1-31 para. 5.12.5.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 07:26
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I Believe the concrete cancer was caused by a halt of the concrete pour during construction.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 09:46
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Although there was a pause in the pour, that's not what caused the cancer. It was quite extensive from the ground up. Atmospheric CO2 permeates the concrete at about one mm per year and reacts with the steel reinforcing. The tower wasn't painted until the cancer was removed.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 09:54
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EPIRB
Nothing contradictory in AIP. Those are the normal setttings. They are over ridden when LVP are in force at a CAT II or CAT III ILS airport.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 20:58
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Okay, thanks.
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 05:34
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As DB said, the old tower has concrete cancer. It was never painted when constructed thereby allowing the concrete to absorb atmospheric carbon dioxide which eventually reaches the steel rods causing the cancer. The cancer was treated in the mid 90s and the tower painted.
What sort of BS is this? Concrete cancer...concrete absorbs Co2 and degrades in a few years...!?!?!?!

You dont need to paint concrete, look how many structures, walls and bridges have been built and lasted.

If you provide the minimum cover over the bars, there will not be any issues when exposed. Look at the concrete poured on water fronts, and in the water...see any paint?
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 06:01
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i worked in the old tower when the cancer was treated and painted. I worked on the new tower project. I'm only going by what the engineers told me.

From an architecture site:

Poor workmanship during construction, low concrete cover to reinforcement, ingress of carbon dioxide to the rebar level causing corrosion due to concrete carbonation, or ingress of chloride into the concrete causing reinforcement corrosion are some of the causes of concrete cancer, indicated initially by concrete spalling and cracking.

Note the mention of CO2.
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Old 25th Jan 2017, 03:01
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Worked there for a number of years myself fujii. Might have worked together!

May or may not be a wive's tale but I recall the story had something to do with the concrete pour being stopped half way up for a lengthy period due to a BLF dispute at the time. Didn't help the situation apparently. You could definitely see the join before it was painted.
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Old 25th Jan 2017, 05:00
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bekoblockage, I was in the TWR 1994 - 2008 then moved to train TWR staff on ASMGCS, CAT II / III ILS along with LVP then the new tower technology. Did we cross paths?
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Old 25th Jan 2017, 08:00
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Check your PMs fujii
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