Melbourne Air Traffic Control
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Sweating formerly public infrastructure is an Australian specialty.
Much more profitable to build carparks and shops.
Genius foresight that allowed the game of mates to sell infrastructure with no requirement for it to ever be updated.
Melbourne Airport has had a "plan" for another runway for at least thirty years..
Much more profitable to build carparks and shops.
Genius foresight that allowed the game of mates to sell infrastructure with no requirement for it to ever be updated.
Melbourne Airport has had a "plan" for another runway for at least thirty years..
Next it was us, on decent heads down trying to make the box give us the numbers, awful. Heads need to be up but we had no option.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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ML has to be the most painful place to fly into on the face of the earth. I dont know what the rules and policies are that create this issue, but something has to give. CAVOK, **** all wind, min speed, 250 on descent hold at Lizzy.
GDP needs to go in the bin too. LST-MEL. Sit on the ground waiting for your slot time, meet it, take off, climbing through 8000 ft "min speed, time at Waren X + 20 mins". If you knew that early I had 20 minutes holding, why the F did you not adjust my COBT?! Its a 40 minute flight!
Honestly it'd be faster rowing a canoe.
GDP needs to go in the bin too. LST-MEL. Sit on the ground waiting for your slot time, meet it, take off, climbing through 8000 ft "min speed, time at Waren X + 20 mins". If you knew that early I had 20 minutes holding, why the F did you not adjust my COBT?! Its a 40 minute flight!
Honestly it'd be faster rowing a canoe.
)Delayed on the ground and as soon as we were handed off to centre, “minimum speed, 21 minute delay into Melbourne”.
The entire COBT program is a farce.
Currently, when 16 is in action and CAVOK conditions, departure gaps are routinely being missed which sees guys and girls on final at 1800' agl being cleared to land, while plenty wait at the holding points..
The hurdles created by lobbyists to prevent infrastructure upgrades are a large part of mess we are living. The bureaucracy is created by people. ATC are like Flight Crew, and are the meat in what is an absolute excrement sandwich of epic proportion. The solution to this is unpalatable to so many “vested” interests that want both am airport to escape via AND no noise pollution, carbon pollution, fauna and flora pollution etc etc...... and also be politically attractive to the most influential voting demographic.
To be clear, it is not just airports. Look around you every day. Roads, rail, base load power. We are living in an ecosystem that restricts productivity, efficiency and stymies economic growth.
Thanks to the swinging votie in this country and the greens achieving a following based on poor assumption of policy, we find ourselves where we are today. In economic and infrastructure limbo.
”votie” was a typographical error that actually works in this context. So I’ll leave it.
Le Pingouin, the day of our issues it was RWY 34 in use with no high speed taxiway. I know departures off RWY 09 could not be done as taxiway E is required form vacating RWY 34, but why are landings on RWY 09 not done? Why not LAHSO 34/09? I did read somewhere previously that the tower can’t do it because of the tower location and set up. A large percentage of operators would benefit.
As for a RWY16 and RWY09sequence, I would have thought 09 arrivals would be very efficient with a roll through to Q taxiway and a large percentage blasting off RWY 16 at taxiway E.
As for a RWY16 and RWY09sequence, I would have thought 09 arrivals would be very efficient with a roll through to Q taxiway and a large percentage blasting off RWY 16 at taxiway E.
Whilst we are “sledging the system” here, how’s about Adelaide?
We call ready for a departure off 23, and there’s a 737 on a 6 mile final....no reply, and then they get cleared to land. (With no departure right before us either so it’s not like it’s a departure separation issue). This has happened multiple times in the last 6 months. At least Melbourne churn you out with 3 mile separation a fair amount of the time.
We call ready for a departure off 23, and there’s a 737 on a 6 mile final....no reply, and then they get cleared to land. (With no departure right before us either so it’s not like it’s a departure separation issue). This has happened multiple times in the last 6 months. At least Melbourne churn you out with 3 mile separation a fair amount of the time.
You guys REALLY need to take the time to visit your local ATC unit. I guarantee there will be answers to each of these issues (not Oz an ATCO, so I can only guess). Whichever part of the world you’re in ATC just want you off their frequency as quickly as possible so you’re not delayed for their benefit.
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An Ethiopian marathon runner just ran 2:01 for 42 km in the Berlin Marathon. Perhaps we should all take up running. It would be quicker. The stupidity and concrete like immobility of Airservices is not funny anymore. I recently had a ground hold of 40 minutes CBR-MEL only to get airborne to find 45 minutes holding at Bulla. Reason? 6 knots tailwind on RWY 27. Its not funny anymore. It’s not even beyond a joke. It’s a national scandal.
The only way anything will change is when the general public becomes aware of what a debacle it is. Sadly, they assume somebody knows what they are doing.
The only way anything will change is when the general public becomes aware of what a debacle it is. Sadly, they assume somebody knows what they are doing.
Oh god yes! I think there’s an Australian controller at Hong Kong (before I continue, HKG ATC is some of the best around here), he was on ground the other day, and geez it made me miss Australian ATC. There might be some downfalls, but at least I didn’t have to make all stations calls as I pass through Australian airspace, because of the standard of infrastructure and skill of ATC like when you passed through Myanmar for a while there.
Visits aplenty - depressing really!
You guys REALLY need to take the time to visit your local ATC unit. I guarantee there will be answers to each of these issues (not Oz an ATCO, so I can only guess). Whichever part of the world you’re in ATC just want you off their frequency as quickly as possible so you’re not delayed for their benefit.
So why the hell does Australian ATC make it so bloody complicated? It is not as though Australia has a lot of traffic; abominable weather; challenging terrain, etc.
What I have found over many, many years of being in this worldly game, is that Australian ATC is constantly stymied by all manner of negative-resulting assessments. The rest of the world "makes it happen"; Aust ATC makes a science of "why it can't happen". Different mind-set, different rules-set - however, the result is the same in Australia.
As a suggestion: all ATCs' KPIs should be linked to traffic efficiency, and without caveats - a flight takes either a COBT or airborne delay, ALL ATCs KPIs take a percentile hit. I am sure that will have their collective minds focused on safe, expeditious and EFFICIENT traffic management. And, do not get me started with traffic holding fuel and who pays for it, but who should pay for it when traffic holding invoked.
You guys REALLY need to take the time to visit your local ATC unit. I guarantee there will be answers to each of these issues (not Oz an ATCO, so I can only guess). Whichever part of the world you’re in ATC just want you off their frequency as quickly as possible so you’re not delayed for their benefit.
Combined with that is the real lack of infrastructure and competition in the airport space. Australia will never see real economic growth in Aviation as it will be stifled by the lack of airports.
This extends to government. If a billionaire wanted to build a second Melbourne Airport the government would shoot it down with red tape long before the first sod is turned.
Are the waiting aircraft at the full length or at an intersection?
An Ethiopian marathon runner just ran 2:01 for 42 km in the Berlin Marathon. Perhaps we should all take up running. It would be quicker. The stupidity and concrete like immobility of Airservices is not funny anymore. I recently had a ground hold of 40 minutes CBR-MEL only to get airborne to find 45 minutes holding at Bulla. Reason? 6 knots tailwind on RWY 27. Its not funny anymore. It’s not even beyond a joke. It’s a national scandal.
The only way anything will change is when the general public becomes aware of what a debacle it is. Sadly, they assume somebody knows what they are doing.
The only way anything will change is when the general public becomes aware of what a debacle it is. Sadly, they assume somebody knows what they are doing.
I have raised this within our company to pass on this feedback as it’s been more evident in recent time and I find it very inefficient.
Last week A380 waiting at Bravo, myself at Echo. Myself and the guy behind could have got airborne before the widebody landed. The super then took its sweet time rolling and end result was 8 minutes of unnecessary waiting. Higher up peeps raised heads when I started throwing multiple examples and fuel costs about.
Last week A380 waiting at Bravo, myself at Echo. Myself and the guy behind could have got airborne before the widebody landed. The super then took its sweet time rolling and end result was 8 minutes of unnecessary waiting. Higher up peeps raised heads when I started throwing multiple examples and fuel costs about.
118.9 tonight was awkward. QF guy gives a slight poke back to the controller... then that got the feathers ruffled.
I’m surprised airline management aren’t banging on ASA doors over this nonsense. The discretionary fuel uplift for a trip to MEL these days is certainly elevated.
I’m surprised airline management aren’t banging on ASA doors over this nonsense. The discretionary fuel uplift for a trip to MEL these days is certainly elevated.
The word on the floor is that the airlines want to hold more so there's "pressure" on the system to keep the movement rates steady (up/high), so there's no missed opportunities (as there'll always be an arrival on offer). I guess as the price of oil changes this "balance" is likely to change (again).
The behavior is seen across the board, got a far north Tower offside recently. A330 6nm to run...so I called ready...standard reply back...still time to get two out...then called ready for an immediate....then got the whole #### remain in your current position until advised further and went on and on. I didn’t get a lineup call until the thing vacated I assume as punishment.