Melbourne Air Traffic Control
Join Date: Jan 2008
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As I said on another post ATC will not use 09 if another runway is available due to the complexity of coordinating with Essendon and arrivals from the east. Why Essendon wags the tail of the dog is a mystery.
Similarly, ATC rules preclude any runway as duty runway with more than 5 knots tailwind dry and zero wet, regardless of aircraft performance capability.
Once 34 or 16 are designated as single runway ops. departures of 27 to the north and east conflict with departures off 27 to the north and east. Hence departures of 27 are prohibited, hence 45 minutes holding, hence 30 minute queues on 34/16.
You might, however, get lucky departing to the west off 27 if there is a gap in the sequence. Its lazy, its third world but thats aviation in Australia in 2019.
Maybe there is an ATC apologist out there who can better explain why this lunacy continues?
Similarly, ATC rules preclude any runway as duty runway with more than 5 knots tailwind dry and zero wet, regardless of aircraft performance capability.
Once 34 or 16 are designated as single runway ops. departures of 27 to the north and east conflict with departures off 27 to the north and east. Hence departures of 27 are prohibited, hence 45 minutes holding, hence 30 minute queues on 34/16.
You might, however, get lucky departing to the west off 27 if there is a gap in the sequence. Its lazy, its third world but thats aviation in Australia in 2019.
Maybe there is an ATC apologist out there who can better explain why this lunacy continues?
A new runway mode is due to be introduced in May 2019, Rwy 09 Arrivals and Rwy 16 Departures, there's more information on that in this link: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...ry-2019-v2.pdf
This new runway mode should at least increase efficiency on all those days, which previously would have been Rwy 16 only due to excessive tailwind on Rwy 27. Since most departures go from intersection Echo, which is South of Rwy 09, it should be a highly efficient mode, allowing the two runways to operate mainly independently.
During Rwy 16 only or 34 only operations, requests for Rwy 27 departures will always be considered, with more chance of approval if departing via CRENA, ESDIG, SUNTI CORRS during 34 ops and NEVIS, KEPPA, MNG, NONIX and DOSEL during 16 ops, due to being in less conflict with duty runway departures.
Requests for 09 departures during these modes are less likely to be approved, as aircraft need to cross the duty runway on taxi and take off roll rather than just take off roll for 27, all the SIDS on 09 are radar departures and the airspace does not work so well for this set up.
I think you’re wasting your breath Dukeben; every time an ATC tries to explain, the old and trite “second best” is rolled out. I’ve come to the conclusion that since back in the DCA days, the department was mostly run by ex pilots, Air Force or civil who made the rules. As a result today we have the aviation infrastructure that we deserve.
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The latest Ive heard regarding Rwy27L/09R at Melbourne is that it has been canned. Due to community concerns. (election year and spineless politicians in my opinion)
The airport is now exploring the possibility for a 34L/16R. The longterm owner of the land involved has left us and there is uncertainty as to who inherits that land.
For an airport that allows anyone and everyone they need to get building quick.
The airport is now exploring the possibility for a 34L/16R. The longterm owner of the land involved has left us and there is uncertainty as to who inherits that land.
For an airport that allows anyone and everyone they need to get building quick.
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Essendon v 09 Dep/ Arr
George Glass,
In my 9 years as an EN controller I can Assure you that EN was never the tail that wagged the dog!!
The decision to use 09 or not for anything was only ever up to Approach and ML tower and subject to wind components discussed elsewhere. The processing of MED traffic into EN was the only impact from EN.
I’m no longer in the ATC game so am an apologist for no one but fair crack of the whip - ATCs everywhere and every day work the rule set they are handed.
KIR
In my 9 years as an EN controller I can Assure you that EN was never the tail that wagged the dog!!
The decision to use 09 or not for anything was only ever up to Approach and ML tower and subject to wind components discussed elsewhere. The processing of MED traffic into EN was the only impact from EN.
I’m no longer in the ATC game so am an apologist for no one but fair crack of the whip - ATCs everywhere and every day work the rule set they are handed.
KIR
Join Date: Jan 2014
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ESP, 34L/16R wont happen either. The copse of trees west of the 16 threshold is subject to an environmental overlay!!!! The Greens will go ballistic! Seriously, you couldnt make this stuff up, but its true. Australia's glory days are over. No vision, no political courage. Now just a long slide into mediocrity.
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Duke, understand all that, but it doesnt help much when youre trying explain to a bunch of passengers who got up at 4 oclock to make a connection why they are holding for 45 minutes on a one hour flight.
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No NSW and VIC glory days are over George, the so-called power houses of the country are stagnating in political empathy and mass population rises with useless infrastructure to support them. BNE will soon have by far the best airport in the country with parallel 3.5 km runways, not the half arsed SYD solution with a main and a mini me, ( although it’s better than nothing of course) , Perth although several years off looks to be the next that will have a proper dual runway setup. This is not demeaning to MEL controllers at all but MEL airport really is a useless basket case of a place if you compare it to any population size city airport within a few thousand miles radius, and I mean just the setup of it not the controlling. I’m always reminded of the late 1960’s when taxiing on that corrugated taxiway Echo........oh yeah it is still the same taxiway from the late 60’s...
No NSW and VIC glory days are over George, the so-called power houses of the country are stagnating in political empathy and mass population rises with useless infrastructure to support them. BNE will soon have by far the best airport in the country with parallel 3.5 km runways, not the half arsed SYD solution with a main and a mini me, ( although it’s better than nothing of course) , Perth although several years off looks to be the next that will have a proper dual runway setup. This is not demeaning to MEL controllers at all but MEL airport really is a useless basket case of a place if you compare it to any population size city airport within a few thousand miles radius, and I mean just the setup of it not lling. I’m always reminded of the late 1960’s when taxiing on that corrugated taxiway Echo........oh yeah it is still the same taxiway from the late 60’s...
https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/sit...l/00002247.pdf
https://pmtranscripts.pmc.gov.au/sit...l/00002247.pdf
Uninformed comment!
Check wheels.
Join Date: Sep 2018
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Some years ago we where inbound to ML & got a STAR terminating with a 09 VOR Approach, we both looked at each other dumbfounded & said, is there even charts for that? This is Straya after all!...………..so flicking thru the Jepps charts with the challenge of learning something new that day we found charts relating to Rwy 09 in pristine condition, in fact stuck together, never been used:-):-)
What's with restarting that track shortening inside the STAR, track to DABOG for visapp after being delayed for 15 minutes.
Increases work load for arriving crews, suits ATC, hurts everyone else.
or here's a novel idea - set up an RNP that works that way. Sheesh.
ADDENDUM: Or sort the stupid CTA steps to the East.
Increases work load for arriving crews, suits ATC, hurts everyone else.
or here's a novel idea - set up an RNP that works that way. Sheesh.
ADDENDUM: Or sort the stupid CTA steps to the East.
Last edited by Oriana; 23rd Mar 2019 at 10:09.
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No no no, Oriana. ATC sees RNP as the problem, not the solution. Not all carriers can use them so GNSS is the default. Thats why they got rid of the SHORTER RNP on Rwy 34. It increased ATC workload.
Youve got to laugh or you would cry. Australian aviation in the 21st century.........
Youve got to laugh or you would cry. Australian aviation in the 21st century.........
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Well Pera, came straight from the Flow Controllers mouth in response to direct question. So why did they get rid of RNP on 34 then?
When RNP approaches were first introduced a few years back by Australias largest carrier there were curved approaches to a 3 mile final to a minima of 250 feet at every major airport in Australia, including secondary airports. Then they evaporated. Why?
Aviation in Australia in 2019....Worlds best practice.......not.
When RNP approaches were first introduced a few years back by Australias largest carrier there were curved approaches to a 3 mile final to a minima of 250 feet at every major airport in Australia, including secondary airports. Then they evaporated. Why?
Aviation in Australia in 2019....Worlds best practice.......not.
Last edited by George Glass; 24th Mar 2019 at 00:01.
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etrust, only a public servant could think thats an answer. I never thought that in almost 40 years in aviation I'd see the system go backwards and apologists try and explain it away. And its only going to get worse. Pretty sad really.
