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Melbourne Air Traffic Control

Old 15th Jun 2017, 13:12
  #301 (permalink)  
 
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Nah, early left turn for the turbo-prop, early right turn for the domestic, and runway track for the international!
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Old 5th Jul 2017, 23:58
  #302 (permalink)  
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How do you work out priority for departure? Is it first to call ready or is it the amount of traffic in a given direction? Who makes the decision? Thanks.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 01:06
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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Generally it is the first to call ready, however the ADC can choose to alter that if it will suit the traffic flow better. For example a medium before a heavy to avoid a wake turbulence delay, or alternate turns on departure rather than same track, that sort of thing.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 01:57
  #304 (permalink)  
 
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however the ADC can choose to alter that if it will suit the traffic flow better. For example a medium before a heavy to avoid a wake turbulence delay, or alternate turns on departure rather than same track, that sort of thing.
Red tail, etc
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 04:23
  #305 (permalink)  
 
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Why would we care what colour tail? No company gives us personally anything so there is no incentive there....
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 05:53
  #306 (permalink)  
 
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Hope it's not first to call ready given R27 and 34 taxi time differences, and the fact it was reiterated by Aerservices not to call ready until approaching the holding point the other month......
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 07:09
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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Ok you are right, first to call ready at the actual holding point. And then subject to that other stuff I said.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 09:01
  #308 (permalink)  
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I saw one aircraft report ready turning from Alpha into Echo. We reported ready at the holding point after their call but had to wait for nearly one minute for them to get to the holding point. I would have thought that it would have been more expeditious just to get aircraft away rather than have them wait for someone. Both heading northbound.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 09:28
  #309 (permalink)  
 
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Over the years Air Services has given reminders not to call ready until at the holding point a few times. From a controllers perspective does it bother you where we are when we call ready? Are there pros and cons to us calling ready before we get to the holding point ?
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 10:36
  #310 (permalink)  
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The AIP states at or approaching the holding point. Personally I think that it is unprofessional to call early. I have seen this happen in Melbourne at intersection Juliet when SMC had cleared aircraft X to Juliet who had been on taxiway Alpha and the tower cleared aircraft Y to Juliet who called ready whilst taxiing down Sierra. Aircraft Y had to break suddenly when X taxied in front of it as both thought they had right of way. Why would you call ready early if you still have taxiways to cross? Not a clever thing to do. Rules are there for a purpose - safety. Everybody gets their fair turn.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 11:33
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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While the system uses ready calls for priority, in my humble opinion, Alpha turning into Echo is approaching the holding point and fair game.

Let's be real, a Short Taxi doesn't mean priority, and waiting 1 min may have been because of wake turb on a crossing runway, hence the person calling ready first had priority.

It's an average system. Perhaps those who taxi first should get priority at the holding point if traffic allows.

Last edited by Bula; 6th Jul 2017 at 11:47.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 11:45
  #312 (permalink)  
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But why leave aircraft X waiting at Quebec who reported ready second to Aircraft Y who called ready turning into Echo when Aircraft Y still takes a minute to get to Papah. Wouldn't it be more efficient to let Aircraft X go rather than just have it sitting there?
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 11:48
  #313 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EPIRB View Post
But why leave aircraft X waiting at Quebec who reported ready second to Aircraft Y who called ready turning into Echo when Aircraft Y still takes a minute to get to Papah. Wouldn't it be more efficient to let Aircraft X go rather than just have it sitting there?
Assuming aircraft X can go. Wake turb, Traffic, Med Helicopter, etc etc etc.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 12:36
  #314 (permalink)  
 
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And I bet nobody is willing to say "This one time, I called ready after another flight, and I got to go first....but I declined and said, no no, after you". Swings and roundabouts. Just accept you don't have the full picture and what happens happens. Does it come out of your paycheck? No? Let it go.....ATC gives priority to whom it fits best, not by the colour of their tail. Nothing to see here.
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 15:50
  #315 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by underfire View Post
The AUS AIP states for runway ops it is mag, and non-runways ops winds re true, it does not detail what runway ops means.
In Sydney (and I presume elsewhere across the network) when I quote an upper wind (to highlight a wind gradient) e.g. 500ft, 1000ft, 1300ft or 1500ft wind then I simply use what the pilot has quoted, I don't apply magvar. Whether this is right or wrong I'm not too sure but no-one has ever complained or commented on it.

In terms of "priority for departure" then there are some debate going on at the moment as to what this means and how it should be applied.

(i) with equal priority, flights compliant with their ATFM requirements, flights exempt from ATFM measures and Medical Aircraft (HOSP) operations; and
(ii) flights not compliant with their ATFM requirements;
(iii) allotheraircraft.
Does it mean that that compliant aircraft depart ahead of other aircraft irrespective of the ready call - food for thought ??
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Old 6th Jul 2017, 22:02
  #316 (permalink)  
 
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Swings and roundabouts. Just accept you don't have the full picture and what happens happens.
Yep. Completely agree. The man upstairs knows more then me about the flow, the wake, the arrivals, the priorities, Essendon... I don't know why people tie themselves up in knots worrying about ATC. I'm sure they don't sit there worrying about how we should be doing our job.

My beef with Melbourne is not with controllers but with the ASA procedures. Not using 09, single runway ops when two runways are suitable, etc etc

Also, the world's slowest runway and taxiway works. How those high speeds were out of action for month after month just beggars belief.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 04:05
  #317 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bula View Post
in my humble opinion, Alpha turning into Echo is approaching the holding point and fair game.
That's bull.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 04:36
  #318 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bug Smasher Smasher View Post
That's bull.

And so is calling 'ready' for 27 on 'A', between 'T' and 'U', although that seems to be going out of fashion lately.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 06:00
  #319 (permalink)  
 
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Approaching:

To come near or nearer to (someone or something) in distance or time.

Finishing to turn from Alpha onto Echo is approaching. I call bull. if you think otherwise.
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 08:07
  #320 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bula View Post
Approaching:

To come near or nearer to (someone or something) in distance or time.
In that case we're 'approaching', and can call ready, as soon as we start taxiing from pretty much anywhere on the airfield. Which explains a fair bit.
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