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Canberra to Doha

Old 29th Nov 2016, 08:01
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Canberra to Doha

What is going on in Canberra!

Canberrans could be able to fly direct to Doha in two years after the Middle Eastern airline announced the nation's capital as its fifth direct Australian destination.

The announcement came as a surprise to the ACT government and Canberra Business Chamber on Tuesday, despite Qatar Airways and Canberra Airport management expecting an announcement at some point.

ACT deputy chief minister Yvette Berry said the government heard "at the same time everyone else did this morning".

"The devil is always in the detail but certainly it's been something the chief minister has been working really hard on, getting international flights here in the ACT," she said.

"We've got international flights to Wellington now and Singapore and we didn't have to do much and now we've got some interest from another international flight from Qatar so we'll look with interest at what their proposal will be and we'll certainly take them up on any offers and conversations about how we can work together," she said.

Qatar Airways announces flights to Canberra with its list of new 2017-18 destinations
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Old 29th Nov 2016, 09:20
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Tell him he's dreaming!

Tell him he's dreaming!
CBR-DOH 6700nm
CBR airport 1900' amsl, 3200m
Lots of performance issues....
I sincerely doubt it's likely to happen
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Old 29th Nov 2016, 10:48
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"Direct" doesn't mean the same as "non-stop" in the airline world...
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Old 29th Nov 2016, 10:52
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I see Qatar has 37 A350-1000's on order. they have a range of 7,950nm in a 3 class configuration with 366 passengers and can operate from a 2,400m runway at MTOW.

What am I missing in terms of performance issues - just trying to understand the issue being a non-pilot but a Canberra based flier.
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Old 29th Nov 2016, 11:30
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CBR-DRW-DOH
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Old 29th Nov 2016, 16:00
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Their A350-900's are doing Adelaide now, surely it can cope with 3200m?
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Old 29th Nov 2016, 16:28
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The Middle East is swamped with capacity at the moment with management looking to start new routes to anywhere.

Is there a requirement for A Canberra Doha direct service?
Would it be a daily service, much cargo?

Not being sarcastic but it's almost like watching history repeat its self prior to 9-11.

In Europe to a lesser degree airlines were starting up routes to anywhere and everywhere, that weren't profitable then after September cited lack of demand on terrorism and quietly shut them down with some airlines disappearing completely.

Last edited by Enos; 29th Nov 2016 at 16:46.
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Old 29th Nov 2016, 23:48
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It will be interesting to see what the interest level is. We haven't heard what loads are like on the SG flights yet.


Once thing going for Canberra is the potential pax catchment area. I think I read when Ikea were setting p in town that they estimated there was about 800,000 people in and around Canberra that would travel to Canberra for them (anywhere from Albury, Wagga to Southern Highlands) rather than go to Sydney/ Melbourne.


If the price and frequency is right CBR is a much nicer proposition than SYD MEL.
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Old 30th Nov 2016, 05:10
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What am I missing in terms of performance issues - just trying to understand the issue being a non-pilot but a Canberra based flier.
Preemo, the problem is Mt Majura at the end of rwy35. If an aircraft has an engine failure during the takeoff it is required to meet certain performance criteria to clear the terrain by a specified amount. Meeting that criteria at an elevation of 1800' on a hot Canberra day can restrict how much fuel and/or passengers an airline can take. Canberra Airport built an extension to the runway which allowed aircraft to take-off from a longer runway but trying to go Doha direct with any sort of decent payload will be an issue. Hope that helps.
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Old 30th Nov 2016, 06:05
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Preemo, the problem is Mt Majura at the end of rwy35. If an aircraft has an engine failure during the takeoff it is required to meet certain performance criteria to clear the terrain by a specified amount. Meeting that criteria at an elevation of 1800' on a hot Canberra day can restrict how much fuel and/or passengers an airline can take. Canberra Airport built an extension to the runway which allowed aircraft to take-off from a longer runway but trying to go Doha direct with any sort of decent payload will be an issue. Hope that helps.
Thanks Lookleft - that's a superb explanation.
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Old 30th Nov 2016, 06:10
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My money will be on a late night departure out of Canberra for a dawn arrival in the Middle East, which will ease the pain somewhat.

That is until all the NIMBYs who bought houses under the flightpath get a curfew put on.
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Old 30th Nov 2016, 09:20
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Don't these big fancy planes have those little wiggly bits on the wings near the wingtips. I think some people call them ailerons. We are talking about a pimple of a mountain in world terms, but some people think it's a huge problem, it could well be according to our regs. Just don't tell the authorities who run Innsbruck, they would fall over themselves laughing at us. Yep Australia is a 3rd world country with 3rd rate thinking.
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Old 30th Nov 2016, 09:31
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Ozgrade3, you appear to be a clown. Yes aircraft on takeoff can make a turn after takeoff to avoid a potential conflict with terrain. However the performance degradation associated with the turn can be more of a penalty than going straight ahead, if indeed going ahead is an option. Some turns that come to mind are CNS15, old HKG, NOU 11. The terrain can mean that any extra runway length is a complete waste in some circumstances.
Go back to your wiggly things.
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Old 1st Dec 2016, 10:01
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Do any of you really have ANY knowledge of the performance capabilities of the current generation widebody twins, i.e. B787, A350?

They have extraordinary performance compared to the A330/B777!

Try MEL-HNL in a B788 with near-full load off RWY 27 (about 2250m/7400ft) with nil wind.

CBR-DOH will be a doddle in all but the hottest conditions; hence its late evening arrival. As Neville said, it'll be a late evening departure in order to help with performance.

Sole-GPS capability will make the traditional engine failure escape procedures redundant (evidence the 'new' EFP out of CNS on B737s) - procedures that were the reason behind alot of payload restrictions.

If you want to do a real-world comparison of performance between current and previous generation twins, just FR24 the North Atlantic; you'll see all the B777s v. A350/B787 aircraft from the middle east at the halfway point of their journey (over Iceland) at (respectively) about FL320-340 v. FL380-400.
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Old 2nd Dec 2016, 06:50
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As Enos said

The Middle East is swamped with capacity at the moment with management looking to start new routes to anywhere.
Looks like Singapore is struggling to build momentum...

'The International Airline Activity report by the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development showed, on average, each of the six flights from Wellington to Canberra in September held just 94 passengers.
The Boeing 777 has 266 seats, meaning there was an average passenger load factor of just 35 per cent.'
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Old 2nd Dec 2016, 07:21
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Early days
Good luck to em but yeah not sure how thatll go
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Old 2nd Dec 2016, 08:17
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The cruise level in flight is not necessarily indicative of the single engine performance on departure. Even at light weight the 777-300ER cruises much lower than some more modern aircraft and even some older ones but it's still got excellent OEI climb at MTOW. Don't have first hand knowledge of the A350's performance but I'd bet a decent sum that's it's pretty good. And with RNP departures Mt Majura is not as big a deal as it was a few years back.
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Old 2nd Dec 2016, 09:56
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Remove the Mount Majura

Its obvious Mt Majura is an impediment to the growth of Canberra Airport and should be removed.
A mining company in The Pilbara region of Western Australia has an airport located at 2100ft ASL.
The mining company wanted to get rid of a charter operator utilising BAE146 aircraft in favour of a new operator using E-jets.
High terrain at the end of the strip was a problem for the E-jets, so the mining company sent in the blast crew and heavy machinery and removed the mountain.
Incidentally the mountain was full of high grade iron ore which was processed through the plant, so it was a win for everyone....except NJS.
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Old 2nd Dec 2016, 11:01
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What is going on in Canberra!
Better question......what is going on in Doha?
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Old 2nd Dec 2016, 12:38
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High terrain at the end of the strip was a problem for the E-jets, so the mining company sent in the blast crew and heavy machinery and removed the mountain.
Haha, that's gold... Do you have a source for that?

Once they're finished in CBR they can ship the machinery to Queenstown and level all those mountains so we can send in A380's
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