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Pilot shortage

Old 17th Mar 2018, 05:35
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No such thing as a Student Pilot Licence.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 09:50
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LeasSled, is the CASA licence to EASA licence still as long as it was under JAR? As in the recognise nothing of the Aus licence and experience.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 16:43
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Bereal-doesnt matter what your background or experience- to fly in EASA land (except for a potential 12 month validation) you need to complete an EASA Licence which is all 14 Theory examinations, then IR/Sim Check. There is absolutely NO credit for prior experience re: Theory exams eg I am a 777 TRE with 3 x ICAO ATPL's (including Australia). Under EASA rules I am considered the equivalent of an 18 year old school leaver. I just wish the rest of the world would treat the EASA people the same - it may lead to change.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 20:23
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Thanks, that’s what I expected. I’m not doing those exams or the licence conversion unless I have to (out of just job in Aus and can’t get another). Assume the 12 month thing is “job for 12 but you need to turn up on the last day with all passes to continue.

With the flying component do you have to start right back at GFPT PPL etc?

Shows what a “shortage” there is. Exactly what I said in my long post on the matter: no shortage of 18 year olds willing to fork out for a cadet scheme with a LCC. Hell over there they aren’t even giving concessions to guys like clear to land!
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 20:48
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Originally Posted by LeadSled
The training will be done as "students" and the only license issued will be a CAAC MPL.
I can't speak for all and have certainly seen MPL programs, but many Chinese airline cadets in Australia are getting a CASA PPL, IR and CPL.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 23:12
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Clear to Land, exactly!
I just wish the rest of the world would treat the EASA people the same - it may lead to change.
I'm in the same boat as ClearTL and tried for recognition through Ireland but got the same reply. An incredible money spinner, that's ignorant and adding to the shortage.
Happy Landings
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 04:46
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Originally Posted by Berealgetreal
Thanks, that’s what I expected. I’m not doing those exams or the licence conversion unless I have to (out of just job in Aus and can’t get another). Assume the 12 month thing is “job for 12 but you need to turn up on the last day with all passes to continue.

With the flying component do you have to start right back at GFPT PPL etc?
Hours are recognised.

You have to sit and pass the exams (no need to complete a course, just do what you have to to pass) and then a flight test.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 05:20
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Pprune has degenerated to the level of an aeroclub bar. The people who have the real knowledge no longer come online.

All Chinese students get a CASA RPL, CPL, IFR licences and ratings. I have filled out 1257 licence applications for CASA licences ............personally. The printed CASA licences then come back through my desk. Not CAAC licences, CASA licences.

It's interestign that even CASA has lost technical expertise, they have been recently started issuing (some) CPL licences without an MPPC/RU endorsement despite having the paperwork. They are adept at losing stuff that is sent to them.

When you send CASA documents, always staple everything together, always have a backup copy of what you send. Always send it registered mail. They can't claim to not have recievd something when you have a picked up notification from Aus Post.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 06:36
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but many Chinese airline cadets in Australia are getting a CASA PPL, IR and CPL.
True, but these are mostly the self sponsored students, not students on airline sponsored courses. It is the MPL that suits airlines, for many obvious reasons, and you fundamentally cannot achieve an MPL without s sponsoring airline.

All Chinese students get a CASA RPL, CPL, IFR licences and ratings.
ozgrade3,
I really don't think so, maybe whoever you are dealing with?? What is your basis for making such a sweeping statement??
With the very first trial of the MPL within the joint CASA/CAAC program, CAAC issued the MPL. How many CASA MPLs have been issued.

without an MPPC/RU endorsement
And what other dopy system even requires such micro-management of aircraft equipment.

Tootle pip!!

PS: Sadly, aero club bars are a rare thing these days.
But never mind, Ozgrade 3, I am speaking as one who was directly involved in the early days of the MPL and related standards, including the battle against one pilot union whose, along with much of the Australian aviation community, was fiercely opposed, despite the fundamentals having underpinned airline pilot training in may parts of the world since the 1960s.
Really, all the ICAO MPL rules did was tidy up a bit of a mess of exemptions and concessions. And you should keep up with the latest (published) developments.

Last edited by LeadSled; 18th Mar 2018 at 06:56.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 06:46
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Originally Posted by LeadSled
True, but these are mostly the self sponsored students, not students on airline sponsored courses. It is the MPL that suits airlines, for many obvious reasons, and you fundamentally cannot achieve an MPL without s sponsoring airline.


ozgrade3,
I really don't think so, maybe whoever you are dealing with?? What is your basis for making such a sweeping statement??
With the very first trial of the MPL within the joint CASA/CAAC program, CAAC issued the MPL. How many CASA MPLs have been issued.

Tootle pip!!
Yea, at the very most, MPL cadets would probably receive a CASA RPL or PPL during the basic core flying phase in a SE piston aircraft. They will probably proceed back home to continue their MCC and jet training. At the end of that, their CAAC MPL.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 07:09
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Originally Posted by LeadSled
How many CASA MPLs have been issued.
Six in total, all in 2009. CASA has a blurb in their 2008-09 Annual Report, page 65 about the introduction of the MPL. The numbers are confirmed as having been issued and current in the 2008-09 year (2010-11 report, part 6 operating statistics). The current report (2016-17)shows no current MPL's issued or current since at least since 2012. I would be confident there weren't any issued between 2011 and 2013, but someone else can trawl the intervening Annual Reports to confirm.

postscript: The 2012 report shows six listed as "current" in 2010-11, nil issued. Interestingly it looks like the six lapsed for a two year period before revalidation.
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 09:19
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Thanks AerocatS2A. So for a boeing or airbus driver: Medical, 14 exams and a sim ride?

With the exams, how do they do them over there? Database of questions thats very similar to the exam or books followed by exams?
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Old 18th Mar 2018, 17:09
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Originally Posted by Clare Prop
No such thing as a Student Pilot Licence.
For what it's worth, there is in the US. I Know, this discussion is about Oz, so this isn't disputing what you said. It is issued with your first medical certificate (Or used to be, honestly my understanding of what's going on now with medical certification at the PP level is a little fuzzy) It doesn't really confer any priveliges without an instructors endorsement for solo flights. But you are required to have it for solo flight.
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Old 19th Mar 2018, 02:50
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"sweeping statements"

Folks,
Maybe my wording was a little sweeping, but, nonetheless it has been made pretty clear to me that a number of PR China airlines have moved/are moving/will move to cadets doing an MPL course only.
Indeed, cadets having a number of "foreign" qualifications, for various reasons, is seen as a negative.
The Chief Executive of one major carrier was quite scathing about the need for various CASA qualifications, and welcomed the Part 61 changes that allowed them to dispense with same, and just train for an MPL.
In the same vein, the chap who oversees all overseas cadet training operations for one of the major PR China groups was equally scathing about CASA in general, all they have in Australia is a bit of "overflow" capacity.
As various PR China groups take control of training organisations here, they will make major changes, they are only interested in outcomes that suit them, not conforming the our system, if they are irrelevant to the desired outcomes.
Most of these groups are well aware of the ability of Australian bureaucracy in general, and CASA in particular, to cause mayhem, which is why Australia has largely missed out on the contract training boom to CA/USA/NZ, with the resultant loss/lack of jobs in the sector here.
Where do I get all this?? In China, and in particulate at major conferences, such as those held in X'ian periodically.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 09:03
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Today we’ve opened up pilot recruitment to the broader industry for mainline Second Officer positions, for the second time in nine years. We’ve also taken the opportunity to re-advertise other pilot positions that are available across the Group.
This was sent to me (is Qantas) and ought indicate for the few clinging to the old paradigm that Qantas has finally cottoned on to the growing structural shortage...

Now if pilots can actually leverage the new paradigm to stop giving ground.
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 09:29
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Originally Posted by Rated De
This was sent to me (is Qantas) and ought indicate for the few clinging to the old paradigm that Qantas has finally cottoned on to the growing structural shortage...

Now if pilots can actually leverage the new paradigm to stop giving ground.
No mention of academic requirements, i.e., passes in year 12 subjects .
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Old 22nd Mar 2018, 09:41
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Originally Posted by AerocatS2A
No mention of academic requirements, i.e., passes in year 12 subjects .
Apparently no longer a requirement!
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Old 23rd Mar 2018, 03:51
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Dropping of the requirements was outlined in an email a few weeks ago.
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Old 23rd Mar 2018, 10:09
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The dropping of year 12 requirements, whilst quite unnecessary, is symptomatic of a company feeling that it needs to widen its net. A company widening its net, is becoming concerned and tberefore showing its hand. Leverage the sh!t out of that!
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Old 23rd Mar 2018, 10:11
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Thought they would probably get rid of some other requirements but to get rid of year 12 as well.....boy
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