Pilot shortage
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Ah ok, I misjudged your comment.
But on your point I certainly agree. HR’s expectations need to reflect the minimum requirements they are selecting against. Although I foresee that HR expectations will continue to be elevated until they actually acknowledge the pool of ‘suitably qualified’ candidates is shrinking.
Then comes the next obstacle of bridging the gap in experience vs expectations. Not insurmountable but it first needs to be acknowledged that tomorrow’s FO is unlikely to have a comparable experience level as the one recruited last year, and the onus is on the company to bridge that.
But on your point I certainly agree. HR’s expectations need to reflect the minimum requirements they are selecting against. Although I foresee that HR expectations will continue to be elevated until they actually acknowledge the pool of ‘suitably qualified’ candidates is shrinking.
Then comes the next obstacle of bridging the gap in experience vs expectations. Not insurmountable but it first needs to be acknowledged that tomorrow’s FO is unlikely to have a comparable experience level as the one recruited last year, and the onus is on the company to bridge that.
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I wasn't expecting such a reaction. To add context to that situation which seems to have gained interest. I acted upon the interview coaching I had received which was not to dominate and not to say nothing either. So I played it down the middle. Truth be told my input directly led to the outcome, which HR acknowledged. As was pointed out, I wasn't told until afterwards what they were looking for!
And just to add to my list, I just lost a air ambo job this week while doing famils, for asking too many questions about how their 24/7 roster works. Just found out I'm not the first they have done it to. No I didn't pass any negative comments.
And just to add to my list, I just lost a air ambo job this week while doing famils, for asking too many questions about how their 24/7 roster works. Just found out I'm not the first they have done it to. No I didn't pass any negative comments.
Thread Starter
I’ve done a few rounds of interviewing over the years.
Delta T it’s not an exact science and rarely is a candidate knocked back for one thing only.
I’d be very surprised if the company who wanted to see you lead the group exercise was very happy with all other components of your application/ interview.
It is more likely ( in my opinion) that the interview panel had reservations about something based on either the sim exercise or your aptitude testing or your panel interview, they were probably 50/50 on you and were open to taking you if they saw something to counter their reservations in the group exercise.
I obviously have no idea if that’s what happened but my point is that it would have been a lot more complex than “ DeltaT didn’t lead the group therefore he/she is not suitable”.
I hope that is useful in some way.
Delta T it’s not an exact science and rarely is a candidate knocked back for one thing only.
I’d be very surprised if the company who wanted to see you lead the group exercise was very happy with all other components of your application/ interview.
It is more likely ( in my opinion) that the interview panel had reservations about something based on either the sim exercise or your aptitude testing or your panel interview, they were probably 50/50 on you and were open to taking you if they saw something to counter their reservations in the group exercise.
I obviously have no idea if that’s what happened but my point is that it would have been a lot more complex than “ DeltaT didn’t lead the group therefore he/she is not suitable”.
I hope that is useful in some way.
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The biggest thing (although unlikely) that could completely reshape our aviation industry and create a serious shortage very quickly would be commuting contracts and/or Australian crew bases for any of the ME3. If EK were willing i'm sure there would be plenty of Aussies willing to jump into an EK A380 if they could be based in Australia.
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DeltaT
From what you’ve just outlined, you appear to have met the requirements for the group excercise scenario. As Framer has indicated maybe it was something more but for the panel to indicate it was based solely on the leadership excercise is very disingenuous. Did/do they offer the opportunity for feedback?
Sorry to hear about the air ambo gig.
From what you’ve just outlined, you appear to have met the requirements for the group excercise scenario. As Framer has indicated maybe it was something more but for the panel to indicate it was based solely on the leadership excercise is very disingenuous. Did/do they offer the opportunity for feedback?
Sorry to hear about the air ambo gig.
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That was the feedback, and the bit about 'compared to other applicants'.
I didn't want to make this thread drift to just about me, just from my personal experience I am finding this whole pilot shortage a farce.
I hear VA have no jet courses this year?
I didn't want to make this thread drift to just about me, just from my personal experience I am finding this whole pilot shortage a farce.
I hear VA have no jet courses this year?
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Delta T, with absolutely no interest in defending The HR luvvies it could well be more complicated than that. I don’t know how old you are but if your a more mature gentleman HR might have some bias or expectation that your leadership would stand out more amongst younger candidates. I don’t know what your recent experience is but I know people who were rejected based on the fact they hadn’t flown for a little while or not enough. Could be many other things. I too know many good people rejected and others that were given a gig even with some fairly obvious foibles.
It might seem like it's not a thing from an Australian perspective but it is definitely a thing from a global perspective.
Skywest have more jets than Qantas, Virgin, Tiger and Jetstar combined, and that is only one regional. Count all the others and you realise how huge the scope of aviation is in the USA. Think you can look up in the sky here and find out where the guy above you is headed with flightaware? Wrong. You will see a sea of aircraft going every which way.
In the USA it is going to be a huge problem, more than what it already is. Regional airlines hire at only barely above the rate the the majors suck pilots out, plus flying schools are closing down from lack of students. You can come over here with .1 above the mins, all on a 152 if you so desired, although you do need 25 multi, and get straight into a jet. Only to get command in under 2 years in some cases.
It's also pretty good for a stint: Full, unrestricted ICAO ATPL. No bonding. Sign on bonuses. Leave whenever you want. Renew your visa indefinitely. Jumpseat on any domestic flight.
Skywest have more jets than Qantas, Virgin, Tiger and Jetstar combined, and that is only one regional. Count all the others and you realise how huge the scope of aviation is in the USA. Think you can look up in the sky here and find out where the guy above you is headed with flightaware? Wrong. You will see a sea of aircraft going every which way.
In the USA it is going to be a huge problem, more than what it already is. Regional airlines hire at only barely above the rate the the majors suck pilots out, plus flying schools are closing down from lack of students. You can come over here with .1 above the mins, all on a 152 if you so desired, although you do need 25 multi, and get straight into a jet. Only to get command in under 2 years in some cases.
It's also pretty good for a stint: Full, unrestricted ICAO ATPL. No bonding. Sign on bonuses. Leave whenever you want. Renew your visa indefinitely. Jumpseat on any domestic flight.
I have spoken to a few recruiters in the US and when I asked about the "on the spot hiring" mentality now he replied,
"we used to be a bit picky but in today's climate you can't. If they are no good we find out during type rating".
"Admittedly this puts extra costs on the company but people we would have knocked back a few years ago seem to turn out fine most of the time".
"we used to be a bit picky but in today's climate you can't. If they are no good we find out during type rating".
"Admittedly this puts extra costs on the company but people we would have knocked back a few years ago seem to turn out fine most of the time".
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So contrary to some posters Australian exceptionalism is a thing? Fact is few other countries have so many expats overseas many of whom would rush home if they could in addition to a massive government loan system that funds new CPLs. We are a supplier of pilots with a small home market, boomers retiring doesn't change that.
When the airlines can pick and choose the preferred genitalia of their pilots bit of a stretch to say there's a huge shortage.
When the airlines can pick and choose the preferred genitalia of their pilots bit of a stretch to say there's a huge shortage.
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So contrary to some posters Australian exceptionalism is a thing? Fact is few other countries have so many expats overseas many of whom would rush home if they could in addition to a massive government loan system that funds new CPLs. We are a supplier of pilots with a small home market, boomers retiring doesn't change that.
When the airlines can pick and choose the preferred genitalia of their pilots bit of a stretch to say there's a huge shortage.
When the airlines can pick and choose the preferred genitalia of their pilots bit of a stretch to say there's a huge shortage.
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Market forces hurting MO’L again. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bloke.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKCN1GJ20B
‘Pilots wishing to join Ryanair will have to pay 5,000 euros ($6,200) for their so-called type rating course to fly the 737, down from 29,500 euros.’
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKCN1GJ20B
‘Pilots wishing to join Ryanair will have to pay 5,000 euros ($6,200) for their so-called type rating course to fly the 737, down from 29,500 euros.’
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"we used to be a bit picky but in today's climate you can't. If they are no good we find out during type rating".
"Admittedly this puts extra costs on the company but people we would have knocked back a few years ago seem to turn out fine most of the time".
"Admittedly this puts extra costs on the company but people we would have knocked back a few years ago seem to turn out fine most of the time".
I really would like to ram that down the throats of downunder airlines!
This so eloquently states what I was trying to say before, but from an airline persepctive this time.
If we really had a shortage downunder then you would see a change in the hiring methods/'standards'
Last edited by DeltaT; 7th Mar 2018 at 18:19.
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Still no REAL shortage in Oz
I really would like to ram that down the throats of downunder airlines!
This so eloquently states what I was trying to say before, but from an airline persepctive this time.
If we really had a shortage downunder then you would see a change in the hiring methods/'standards'
There is no real shortage in Australia when you have a situation in which HR is able to be choosy to the point of selecting one qualified aviator over another based on psychometric tests, behavioural interviews or other subjective soft skills.
I understand that with non-qualified candidates (ie cadets) this type of testing may be the best guide a company has to predict future success. But with an experienced aviator that has already been doing the same job for 20 years!?!?
No, that’s no shortage. Not in this country.
I agree with the advice to POQ to the USA if your personal situation allows it. It will open your eyes to a massive, interesting, challenging and fun industry full of opportunities and experiences that are not available to you in the sheltered backwater of Australian aviation.
If it isn’t happening as you want it to here...make it happen over there.
Best of luck.
PG
Interesting reading about the qualifications etc. needed to join the Airlines.
When the demand for Pilots is high the requirements drop quite a bit.
In 1964 there was a big surge in Domestic Aviation and the 2 Major Airlines were recruiting as quickly as they could get pilots.
There was one guy on my DC3 course who had a bare commercial and 175 hrs TT and was 28 years old!!
It seemed almost that if you had a pulse and a commercial you were in.
Things sure have changed in the few years since then.
Them were the good old days!!!
When the demand for Pilots is high the requirements drop quite a bit.
In 1964 there was a big surge in Domestic Aviation and the 2 Major Airlines were recruiting as quickly as they could get pilots.
There was one guy on my DC3 course who had a bare commercial and 175 hrs TT and was 28 years old!!
It seemed almost that if you had a pulse and a commercial you were in.
Things sure have changed in the few years since then.
Them were the good old days!!!
[QUOTE=pilotchute;10074990]My NASA comment was just a bit of a dig at companies flying old school TP's expecting astronaut qualified crew. The hiring mins have come down but the expectation of HR hasn't really followed.
Well I can tell you, no one in our HR department would know the first thing about flying an aeroplane, let alone what it means to be in a position of command!
Well I can tell you, no one in our HR department would know the first thing about flying an aeroplane, let alone what it means to be in a position of command!
There was one guy on my DC3 course who had a bare commercial and 175 hrs TT and was 28 years old!!
Thread Starter
Maybe it’l go full circle. The USA will start head hunting Australian pilots and Australian Airlines will have to take C152 pilots and invest some time and money in them 
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It will, just give it a bit of time. Australian market is minuscule compared to US/Europe/Asia, so naturally, effects of the shortage were less pronounced for the last couple of years. But with more and more doors opening for low hour pilots overseas - HRs will find very quickly that there are no more people in that waiting line.
