Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Pilot shortage

Old 10th Jan 2018, 23:09
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Originally Posted by Rated De
Australian exceptionalism aside, airline IR refreshed from a few week's rest will be flat out on the next installment of their FEAR, UNCERTAINTY and DOUBT campaign

Quietly despairing as they surround the water cooler and discuss the next potion to defer the inevitable paradigm shift coming to an airline new you: Terms and conditions and indeed their whole model of 'employee relations' is on the chopping block.
I have recently heard murmurings to this effect coming from people connected to JQ negotiating committees. It is all such a predictable and boring adversarial playbook.

Rumours that the unborn FRMS to be dumped and CAO 48 exemption to be continued indefinitely. Further rostering 'efficiencies' are planned as well apparently so this pilot group can remain 'competitive' and confidently 'secure' their futures.

It will be interesting to see how resolved and united this pilot group will be during the negotiations for their next EBA which expires in a little over 12 months. Cohesion will always be difficult when the membership is split across 3 unions in addition to there being significant non-union numbers.

Fear, uncertainty and doubt. Coming to a management propaganda campaign near you!



PG

Last edited by Popgun; 11th Jan 2018 at 03:59. Reason: sp typos
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 00:01
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Personally, I’ll retire in a low cost location such as Malaysia, Thailand or the Philippines for about 10 years and come back when I’m about 75.[/QUOTE]

It works for me!
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 03:22
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All those threats are being floated about as we speak. We are as stupid as the IR experts think if we fall for it now though.

This is to my knowledge, the only profession that is not recognized as a true profession, where you hold the lives of hundreds of people on your hands yet garner no actual authority over an MBA, where a businessman can BS to a minister thus having the entire IR world chandged to suit a financial outcome.

Grow a fvcking backbone guys and girls. You will not be sacked for simply asking for a fair market rate for your services.

Lobby the hell out of your union, and don’t burst into tears whenever your HR people hint at your demise. Plenty of us stand our ground and are still here.
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 04:52
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Plenty of us stand our ground and are still here.
To be a door mat it is first necessary to lay down


Completely agree, but unions and management are two sides of the same coin. Sadly it has been the case in Australia since that year that pilots lay down.
I have seen tough talk my whole career, but those talking the loudest, fold first. Ask the Cathay guys.

Pilots negotiating for pilots is a big error that one union in particular is fond of repeating. Ever wonder why the other side always win?

I remember being asked by a pilot union representative what I would give up to secure an improvement? I thought I could convince him that maybe there is no need to give up anything. I argued enterprise 'bargaining' had been one way for a generation and perhaps that he was too old to see what had changed.

I suspect that the next round of enterprise 'bargains' will be led by pilot representatives turning up with their customary knife to a gun fight....again!
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 05:11
  #545 (permalink)  
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What begins the change is persistent and dignified personal resistance.
That’s my favourite prune sentence of 2018.
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 06:50
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Originally Posted by Rated De
Pilots negotiating for pilots is a big error that one union in particular is fond of repeating. Ever wonder why the other side always win?
Duplicity, delinquency and unbelievably, pilot apathy.

It got so slewed in HKG, that in recent negotiations it was mentioned that the union was a solid path to training and management for pilots. Disgraceful that it is so accepted and not called for what it is. I've seen guys scorned by managers, never to be trainers, all of a sudden after being in executive union positions, end up fast tracked through the system.

The most unlikely of candidates and it's fine by me, as long as it is called so by their peers.
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 09:43
  #547 (permalink)  
 
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More to the point I think he is making is that the company will have professional and experienced HR IR people. Sending pilots to negotiate with them is foolish. We need the same expertise on our side that they use.
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 09:52
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I worked in road transport for a while and I can tell you when things are up for negotiations the union doesnt send in truck drivers!

As a previous poster said if your serious you send in IR negotiating professionals. Anything less is foolish.
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 14:27
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I don't fly in oz anymore but damn right it is a rubbish industry now. It doesn't matter where you go or what you fly, it all sucks.

The smart ones won't bother trying to make a career out of it anymore, quickly get themselves into a position that allows them to do something they really enjoy.
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 18:30
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There will be plenty of job opportunities coming up at the ATSB, they’ll be getting plenty of work in the near future I reckon. This place is toxic and unsafe.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 02:44
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
More to the point I think he is making is that the company will have professional and experienced HR IR people. Sending pilots to negotiate with them is foolish. We need the same expertise on our side that they use.

I know exactly what he means. I was just illuminating a dark shade in pilot unionism that is so difficult for many to accept they bury their heads in the sand.

You don't just swap hats going from pilot union negotiator to management pilot.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 09:22
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The company loves it because the pilot reps fly a full roster and spend their spare time doing union rep work. One such company even has the unions convinced that there is a requirement to have pilot reps doing the negotiating. It is little wonder then that bad outcomes occur.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 10:17
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The only way to fix a pilot shortage is with taller pilots.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 14:39
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Devil

Originally Posted by swh
The only way to fix a pilot shortage is with taller pilots.
Now we’re just getting personal!
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 00:31
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Originally Posted by swh
The only way to fix a pilot shortage is with taller pilots.
Added advantage is no reading glasses for a year or two longer.
(Arms are longer. )
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 08:21
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You don't just swap hats going from pilot union negotiator to management pilot.
As Gordon Gekko said,' if you ain't inside, you are outside'

Yanis Varoufakis provided the clarity not afforded by Gekko when he stated, and I paraphrase:

'When invited in, you leave your coat and values at the door. Insiders never tell tales and they don't speak to outsiders'

I agree Gnadenberg,

I was just illuminating a dark shade in pilot unionism that is so difficult for many to accept they bury their heads in the sand.
The same darkness was what I was alluding to

Last edited by Rated De; 13th Jan 2018 at 08:32. Reason: Spelling
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 12:25
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Yea nah

If 457 visas are being used to patch the hole temporarily for a pilot shortage then when is anyone (I.e government and private companies) going to do something about the shortage? Or are we forever going to see a highly globalised competition within Aus forever seeing as no one will take initiative for solving this.

Also I'm not sure if you guys have heard of "Australian wings academy" but they allow a HECs VET fee debt scheme to pay for your training for all licences required and you pay it back when you have a job above a certain salary per year. They also offer accommodation for interstate students. I guess similar to Rex cadet scheme however you aren't binded within their bs T and C's.

It's in gold coast where I'm located so I will be doing it after completion of my electronic engineering degree. Reason I'm doing this is due to the state of GA in Aus, I need a back plan just incase. Hopefully I'm on the right track idk I'm just a newbie
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 13:11
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Originally Posted by Akahmi
If 457 visas are being used to patch the hole temporarily for a pilot shortage then when is anyone (I.e government and private companies) going to do something about the shortage? Or are we forever going to see a highly globalised competition within Aus forever seeing as no one will take initiative for solving this.

Also I'm not sure if you guys have heard of "Australian wings academy" but they allow a HECs VET fee debt scheme to pay for your training for all licences required and you pay it back when you have a job above a certain salary per year. They also offer accommodation for interstate students. I guess similar to Rex cadet scheme however you aren't binded within their bs T and C's.

It's in gold coast where I'm located so I will be doing it after completion of my electronic engineering degree. Reason I'm doing this is due to the state of GA in Aus, I need a back plan just incase. Hopefully I'm on the right track idk I'm just a newbie
As much as most on here (including me) advocate that GA experience after finishing your license is great experience, I would surmise that those Rex or jetstar cadets have moved on to much higher paying jobs a lot sooner than slogging it out in GA (rightly or wrongly).

Unless of of course you’re just indirectly advertising for said school you mentioned.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 14:22
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Originally Posted by havick
As much as most on here (including me) advocate that GA experience after finishing your license is great experience, I would surmise that those Rex or jetstar cadets have moved on to much higher paying jobs a lot sooner than slogging it out in GA (rightly or wrongly).

Unless of of course you’re just indirectly advertising for said school you mentioned.
Ah I see, and I'm definitely not advertising lmao, just letting you guys know. Anyway I hears Rex offers alot of cadetship spots and normal jobs to low hour pilots, that being said I'd most rather do a cadetship but is a general aviation job worth it with Rex since I've heard finding that first job is very difficult? Also I'm new so if this is going too off topic I'll stop.
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 03:23
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Originally Posted by Akahmi
..... they allow a HECs VET fee debt scheme to pay for your training for all licences required and you pay it back when you have a job above a certain salary per year.
You will find numerous Universities also have a similar diploma degree in aviation. Some of these have direct relationship with qantas link for grads. Plenty of info on this in this forum..

Note: If your using fee help to do your Electronics degree, you may exceed the fee help cap for the Aviation degree as this only so much the Govt. (aka taxpayers) will assist you with
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