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Pilot shortage

Old 3rd Apr 2018, 04:46
  #901 (permalink)  
 
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DEC: I’ve seen it in some of the above. There are also freight DEC jobs. Another option: corporate. Check the AFAP jobs page. Have those guys applied for QF VA and TT? I doubt they failed the aptitude, reckon it was used to cull. Another option is NZ, Fiji and other island operators.

As for the early grave, sure understood. However there are some Asian outfits offering massive coin and if you went in with a plan you just might pull it off. Here in Aus with the tax system most will have to work to 60 and some 70 depending on which wife they are up to!
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 04:52
  #902 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wheels_down View Post
Jetstar usually employ from REX and small Prop jobs here and in Kiwi land.

They don’t usually take those with heavy time on type or any time at all.
Why is that? Seems rather stupid to ignore all that jet experience.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 05:10
  #903 (permalink)  
 
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Why is that? Seems rather stupid to ignore all that jet experience.
I went through the same experience but I was applying for a domestic position from within Australia. It has nothing to do with experience unless they need quick upgrades to the LHS
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 07:18
  #904 (permalink)  
 
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Presumably because an experienced FO isn't seen as a plus by those that hire?

Hard to get your head around but its just a bum in a seat really. Capt is a bit different. For a DEC they want that experience.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 08:35
  #905 (permalink)  
 
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Spot on! An F/O can be a 250 hour cadet so experience doesn't count and is just a bum in a seat.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 12:28
  #906 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Berealgetreal View Post
..Here in Aus with the tax system most will have to work to 60 and some 70 depending on which wife they are up to!
There I go again, laughing as I snort my coffee on PPPrune...permanently single, retired at 45, pay tax no more.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 22:08
  #907 (permalink)  
 
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Clearly not everyone is as clever or humble as you.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 22:08
  #908 (permalink)  
 
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I once had the Head of HR at an OZ A320 operator say to me ‘why would we pay more just based on experience when we can train ANYONE off the street in 14 months to do the same job for a much lower wage’. Unfortuantly that is the attitude, we were trying to get a pay structure that increased with time in the company to encourage experienced pilots to stay.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 22:24
  #909 (permalink)  
 
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Did you respond with

"we could take anyone off the street in one month to do the same job as you for a lower wage"
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 22:36
  #910 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortuantly that is the attitude, we were trying to get a pay structure that increased with time in the company to encourage experienced pilots to stay. 3rd Apr 2018 23:08
Completely understand. As with Nurses and professions where there is emotional investment, HR/IR believe this can used as leverage.

With unlimited supply of willing, emotionally and financially invested applicants is it any wonder that so many games get played?

Demographics are certainly changing the landscape for adversarial IR, however in the meantime we will continue to see a continuance of the current 'model' of employee relations.
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Old 3rd Apr 2018, 23:30
  #911 (permalink)  
 
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OnceBitten, something along those lines was indeed said. Sadly this is the attitude that pervades Airline Management, even he Chief Pilot (sitting on their side) said that experience is overrated as everyone including cadets completes their checks to the same standard. We said that ‘an interesting comment from a pilot who has done so well out of an industry that has paid him for his ‘experience’’. I truely believe this is the problem, to ‘attract’ the experienced pilots home to Australia and NZ you would have to put better contracts on the table, I don’t think that Airline Management see the value in doing that, they have a theory that they can set up their own academy to ensure a flow of cheap pilots who are of the same standard and as a stop gap if they can just get visa’s for pilots from other parts of the world where living standards are not great then the Aussie dream will attract them as opposed to better contracts.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 03:06
  #912 (permalink)  
 
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Trying to lure (cheaper) newcomers, just as mentioned in proceeding posts. Problem is the Management have their head in the sand in denial of Insurances increasing from the rise of "pilot error" accidents (alluded to in my previous page 45 post link)

Happy Landings.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 03:13
  #913 (permalink)  
 
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Experience is only overrated if you value economy over safety.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 03:33
  #914 (permalink)  
 
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To a point.
Experienced crew can give you both economy AND safety though... if you work with them/have them onside!
There are many ways an experienced pilot can save the company huge $$ in operations which "junior burgers" can only dream of... they may try but often fail or scare themselves and pax! Downwind landings prevalent in Indonesia a classic example.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 06:14
  #915 (permalink)  
 
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Insurances increasing from the rise of "pilot error" accidents (alluded to in my previous page 45 post link)
Chocks away,
With great respect, that is prejudice speaking.
Accident rates are NOT going up, let alone so called "pilot error" accident rates. Further, there is no statistical record that shows that "inexperienced" pilots dominate what few accidents there are.
And, in any event, there is no general rise in insurance rates.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 07:21
  #916 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry but we must agree to disagree.
You might call in prejudice but myself and many others call it realism... the information is out there!
Difference of opinion is expected on here and that's what the Forums are for.

There IS a rise in Pilot Error accidents, though overall accident rates have dropped and it's a safer industry for now.

While there has been a significant reduction in
catastrophic loss events in recent decades, unsurprisingly
plane crashes remain the major cause of loss for the
aviation sector in terms of number of insurance claims
generated (23%) and their subsequent value (37%)..

"The report found that an estimated 70% of fatal accidents in commercial aviation operations are due to human error"

Here's abit more bed time reading for you... and here... and another one.

Enough spoon feeding for tonight.

Last edited by Chocks Away; 4th Apr 2018 at 07:33.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 08:23
  #917 (permalink)  
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Hmmmmm, why are these pesky pilots making so many errors? Tell them we’re going to make them do more online courses from their laptops..... and while you’re there, jiggle their rosters around a bit more will you, that should make them straighten up and fly right.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 09:06
  #918 (permalink)  
 
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Certainly, we never hear about the millions of times a day the pilots intervene to stop one getting rolled up do we? Best they roll out pilotless jets asap!

Good idea framer.

Last edited by Berealgetreal; 4th Apr 2018 at 19:35.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 11:16
  #919 (permalink)  
 
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Chocks Away

It would be nice to only employ "experienced" pilots, but where do you suggest they get their "experience"?
In Europe for example there is no great GA pool of experienced pilots or large ex Military to recruit from. Therefore for many years now many airlines have recruited a large proportion of their new hires from reputable flying schools.
In my UK airline many 250 plus hour cadet pilots have joined and flown with complete safety on 737/A320 etc. aircraft, after the correct route flying mentoring . We also do not go down the S/O Cruise Pilot scenario. All pilots are trained and released to line flying as fully qualified to operate on a two man flight deck.
Many are now Captains on 777/787/747/A380. after gaining more "experience"
They all had the required regulatory "experience" after training and released to the Line. We have no safety problem at all. Obviously further experience/skills are accrued with time.

Or perhaps you can give me the alternate statistics.

Last edited by cessnapete; 4th Apr 2018 at 11:26.
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Old 4th Apr 2018, 13:09
  #920 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know 'pete. Modify the Licencing fiasco to allow a more global exchange of flight crew to where they're needed (as if that's going to happen).
Experience comes from exposure, yes, in well mentored environments as you mentioned, if not gained through GA exposure. That equation has been turned upside-down in many airlines though, particularly in "special" Australia (for the many reasons covered by Rated De & others here previously).
I know of plenty of experienced professionals knocking on the door of Australia but who are getting shunned by HR & misguided management theories, going for the "junior burgers" instead (heck, not even with cheese either :-) )
P.s. Will we see an increase in retirement age? Some airlines let you fly as long as you meet your Class 1 Medical, aka AirNZ.

Last edited by Chocks Away; 5th Apr 2018 at 01:52.
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