Pilot shortage
Either they are being too picky, or they are not paying well
Megan,
If you have good Capts and a good training dept there is no need for a FO on a Metro/S340 to have 2000TT and 500 ME command.
Dragon Air take A330's with a 200 hour FO into very high workload Chinese airspace. Throw in some CB's and you have a party!
I can't for the life of me figure out why a Metro/Saab operator would need such high mins for the RHS. Apart from maybe they have a low cap AOC requiring 500 ME PIC for upgrade.
If you have good Capts and a good training dept there is no need for a FO on a Metro/S340 to have 2000TT and 500 ME command.
Dragon Air take A330's with a 200 hour FO into very high workload Chinese airspace. Throw in some CB's and you have a party!
I can't for the life of me figure out why a Metro/Saab operator would need such high mins for the RHS. Apart from maybe they have a low cap AOC requiring 500 ME PIC for upgrade.
Regarding the European market (My apologies to those not interested).
easyJet (Airbus) take on DEC every now and then, not often. They do hoover up MPL and full time cadet pilots from L3 and Oxford.
Ryanair (Boeing 737), they are on the charm offensive and hiring a lot of people.
Norwegian (Boeing etc), definitely hiring experienced pilots. Ratings not required, ideally, experience in wide bodies or command on 40+ tonne jets useful.
We're hiring, but you'll be an FO for 10 years.
(Large fractional bizjet operator)
Jet2 (Boeing 737 classic), hiring, usually quick commands for those with experience. Most folks I know do a year or two and jump to Virgin Atlantic if they can.
Vistajet, don't know, probably hiring.
BA etc, probably hiring.
Eurowings, hiring. (Must speak German)
Air France, hiring. (Must speak French)
Finnair, hiring (Must speak Finnish or Swedish).
UK regionals, various European regionals, hiring.
You'll need right of abode etc, EASA medical, exams and a licence... Budget a year to do it all. Unfortunately, in that time, it could all be over. Then the only folks hiring are easyJet and Ryanair and they'll take their cadets over experienced pilots.
Several airlines have recently gone bust, Air Berlin, Air Nikki, Monarch. Fortunately, the pilots were picked up by easyJet and Lufthansa. Alitalia's teetering on the edge again....
easyJet (Airbus) take on DEC every now and then, not often. They do hoover up MPL and full time cadet pilots from L3 and Oxford.
Ryanair (Boeing 737), they are on the charm offensive and hiring a lot of people.
Norwegian (Boeing etc), definitely hiring experienced pilots. Ratings not required, ideally, experience in wide bodies or command on 40+ tonne jets useful.
We're hiring, but you'll be an FO for 10 years.
(Large fractional bizjet operator)Jet2 (Boeing 737 classic), hiring, usually quick commands for those with experience. Most folks I know do a year or two and jump to Virgin Atlantic if they can.
Vistajet, don't know, probably hiring.
BA etc, probably hiring.
Eurowings, hiring. (Must speak German)
Air France, hiring. (Must speak French)
Finnair, hiring (Must speak Finnish or Swedish).
UK regionals, various European regionals, hiring.
You'll need right of abode etc, EASA medical, exams and a licence... Budget a year to do it all. Unfortunately, in that time, it could all be over. Then the only folks hiring are easyJet and Ryanair and they'll take their cadets over experienced pilots.
Several airlines have recently gone bust, Air Berlin, Air Nikki, Monarch. Fortunately, the pilots were picked up by easyJet and Lufthansa. Alitalia's teetering on the edge again....
It has been said many times before; there is a shortage of pilots willing to work long hours for mediocre pay in Australia, not a shortage of pilots overall, yet. There are some exceptions to this, but generally, pilots are at the transition point where the group think is overpowering the IR/HR games. The only thing preventing this from being a rapid change is the highly resourced IR/HR departments who have been tasked with the job of perpetuating the myth that "times are tough" etc.
The party was long and we all drank in the myth to excess, but we are now waking up and seeing that the beauty we fell so easily for last night was really some bloke wearing a wig and a dress. The hangover will be very entertaining to watch from here.
The party was long and we all drank in the myth to excess, but we are now waking up and seeing that the beauty we fell so easily for last night was really some bloke wearing a wig and a dress. The hangover will be very entertaining to watch from here.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
To answer Berealgetreal's question. (Look away if you're not interested in Europe)
As far as I know, neither operator allows unions. There's a very big clue. Although, recently, Ryanair are making noises about permitting unions to negotiate. They had to. Norwegian hoovered up a lot of Boeing pilots and very few experienced pilots were interested to join Ryanair. Ryanair's original contracts weren't bad as you were directly employed etc. Now, you're self employed through a limited company that they encourage you to set up. So you pay yourself, your taxes, your holidays etc. You also pay for your accommodation when at the sim etc. Unfortunately for many pilots, the tax departments of several countries have become very interested in these arrangements and some pilots have found themselves on the receiving end of rather large tax bills. On the plus side, their training is good, equipment new and you'll gain a lot of hours quickly.
Norwegian has a similar set up. They use OSM and many contracts are located in Thailand. Since they've been expanding rapidly, opportunities have been available for fleet changes and or upgrades/promotions so the grumbling isn't too loud yet. See Terms and Endearments for more info.
As far as I know, neither operator allows unions. There's a very big clue. Although, recently, Ryanair are making noises about permitting unions to negotiate. They had to. Norwegian hoovered up a lot of Boeing pilots and very few experienced pilots were interested to join Ryanair. Ryanair's original contracts weren't bad as you were directly employed etc. Now, you're self employed through a limited company that they encourage you to set up. So you pay yourself, your taxes, your holidays etc. You also pay for your accommodation when at the sim etc. Unfortunately for many pilots, the tax departments of several countries have become very interested in these arrangements and some pilots have found themselves on the receiving end of rather large tax bills. On the plus side, their training is good, equipment new and you'll gain a lot of hours quickly.
Norwegian has a similar set up. They use OSM and many contracts are located in Thailand. Since they've been expanding rapidly, opportunities have been available for fleet changes and or upgrades/promotions so the grumbling isn't too loud yet. See Terms and Endearments for more info.
What will really throw a cat amongst the pidgeons is when the China jobs go from 300k usd/year commuting to 500, 600k + /year in the foreseeable future.
There’s a point where money talks, and even legacies (worldwide) will struggle to compete with that kinda cash on offer, even if it is Asia and all the associated red tape, culture/CRM and way of doing business.
There’s a point where money talks, and even legacies (worldwide) will struggle to compete with that kinda cash on offer, even if it is Asia and all the associated red tape, culture/CRM and way of doing business.
You're not wrong there, and I can't help but wonder what the future will hold for the Second Officer rank. Will they be forced to discontinue it in order to attract more experienced candidates, or will they embrace it and turn it into a Cadetship at severely reduced pay?
Honestly, when Airlines such as QF and Air NZ have Pilots with 5-10,000 hours sitting in the middle seat, it's clear just how much a good contract is worth.
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Qlink knocking people back for not having recent IFR time.
Last edited by sheppey; 28th Mar 2018 at 08:31.
Which is for Low Capacity which doesn't apply to Qlink Operations.
Having said that, they obviously want recent IFR time because you're going to be flying IFR...Qlink isn't a flying school- they're stretched with training captains as it is without having to hold your hand and walk you through the Jepps.
Dragon Air also has a silly command upgrade program with a 100% failure rate at times due to a rightful paranoia about Asian operations and RHS inexperience.
That said, there's a new direction now. So we'll see.
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The amusing part of this is that the airlines have, in the Australian context done nothing to further that from what they feed.
Ourobouros is the concept from mythology.
Airlines selectively and at times of their choosing drained the supply.
The last airline sponsored cadet program was Qantas last century, albeit at taxpayer expense.
The rise of Low Fare Airlines and the magic labour unit cost reductions they achieved were driven in part by oversupply of pilots. Pilots paying for endorsements, interviews and even in the case of Ryan Air uniforms.
Meals were cut, salaries barely kept up with inflation and the industry was self satisfied; there were always new instructors training new commercial pilots.
Unlimited supply is at the foundation of the adversarial IR model employed by many airlines.
30 years is a long time for a paradigm to hold, but demographics always guaranteed that unlimited supply would fade and the airlines exacerbated the shortage by driving conditions, respect and careers ever downwards.
Just in the last year in Australia
As the snake begins to consume its own tail, Mr Joyce could make a direct appeal to his 'professional company ambassadors' to go the extra mile. He has a 'short' memory as many Qantas pilots remember October 2011 only too well.
Rather amusing as it builds
Ourobouros is the concept from mythology.
Airlines selectively and at times of their choosing drained the supply.
The last airline sponsored cadet program was Qantas last century, albeit at taxpayer expense.
The rise of Low Fare Airlines and the magic labour unit cost reductions they achieved were driven in part by oversupply of pilots. Pilots paying for endorsements, interviews and even in the case of Ryan Air uniforms.
Meals were cut, salaries barely kept up with inflation and the industry was self satisfied; there were always new instructors training new commercial pilots.
Unlimited supply is at the foundation of the adversarial IR model employed by many airlines.
30 years is a long time for a paradigm to hold, but demographics always guaranteed that unlimited supply would fade and the airlines exacerbated the shortage by driving conditions, respect and careers ever downwards.
Just in the last year in Australia
- Pilots added to the skilled shortages list
- Jetconnect rolled into Australia without a whimper from the union concerned.
- Network Aviation to get A320 (up to 20 from JQ)
- Qantas to open a 'pilot training academy'
- Qantas 'roadshows' asking staff to recommend friends!
- ATPL requirements relaxed
As the snake begins to consume its own tail, Mr Joyce could make a direct appeal to his 'professional company ambassadors' to go the extra mile. He has a 'short' memory as many Qantas pilots remember October 2011 only too well.
Rather amusing as it builds
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‘Up to 20 A320s for Network’... that number keeps getting bigger and bigger! It’ll be 50 A320s and a handful of wide bodies by next week! Pilots are good at allowing rumours to gather momentum!
High minimums
The reason you need 2000 hours TT and 500 hours Multi to fly a S340 is because they expect to upgrade you ASAP. They don’t need more 200 hour cadets that take 3 years to upgrade, they’ve got plenty of those! Pass 2 sim checks and you’ll quickly find yourself in the LHS.
Q’link/Airnorth would be the same. They’re hiring future Captains, not f/o’s that need baby sitting for 3-4 years.
Q’link/Airnorth would be the same. They’re hiring future Captains, not f/o’s that need baby sitting for 3-4 years.
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The reason you need 2000 hours TT and 500 hours Multi to fly a S340 is because they expect to upgrade you ASAP. They don’t need more 200 hour cadets that take 3 years to upgrade, they’ve got plenty of those! Pass 2 sim checks and you’ll quickly find yourself in the LHS.
Q’link/Airnorth would be the same. They’re hiring future Captains, not f/o’s that need baby sitting for 3-4 years.
Q’link/Airnorth would be the same. They’re hiring future Captains, not f/o’s that need baby sitting for 3-4 years.
Also, what sort of pay and work rules will they be under once upgraded? Subsidiary question: what happened to the captains who were previously filling the vacancies they re trying to fill now? Why did they leave? for better pay? Better schedulable?
The writing has been on the wall since the Pilots Dispute. The denigration of the profession and erosion of conditions by Dixon and successors has removed the role of Pilot as a desirable career option for many and airlines are seeing the results - this is not a reflection on the crew who have persisted and have had their career /lifestyle expectations continually lowered.
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Jetconnect rolled into Australia without a whimper from the union concerned.