Pilot shortage
Vietnam are also feeling the pinch. J* Pacific is offering fast track upgrades for FOs in Oz should anyone be interested.
The SIA policy of not employing expats is well overdue considering a large portion of their low cost offshoot is crewed by non locals.
The SIA policy of not employing expats is well overdue considering a large portion of their low cost offshoot is crewed by non locals.
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Management put out a call on Sept. 13 offering pilots more money to work extra days, with management "not quite realising how serious it was," O'Leary told Reuters.
O'Leary made it Ryanair's trademark to treat pilots more like bus drivers than what he saw as the pampered rock stars of aviation's golden age.
Australia is no different.
There is no one in Qantas IR who was around in 2003. Not a soul. Heck, even Joyce himself wasn’t long in QF at that stage.
There is no one in Qantas IR who was around in 2003. Not a soul. Heck
There has been an obsession with reducing pilot costs, which at mainline alone must be between $500 mil and a billion per year. They see it as the fat which still sits on the cost carcass. With game theory, long term planning and top law firms to implement (whom AIPA often struggles to match as they won't work for unions) they have achieved far past what they probably ever expected for IR in 2000. Only problem is, the pool of capable candidates to enter the industry dwindles year by year as the news seeps out about a modern career in aviation.
In the coming weeks, a group of my aviation colleagues will be voting on their EBA. A rather bad EBA at that. Many of the ones I speak to are not even slightly convinced that the carrot they are being offered is enough any more. Go back a number of years to the last EBA and the story was very different. It is heartening that, although a small group, they have turned a corner and are prepared to ask for their fair worth.
Stand firm my friends, the shiny things are there to blind, not light the way
.
Stand firm my friends, the shiny things are there to blind, not light the way
.
Be heartened by the fact SYD>PER one-way economy class fare on VA earlier this week was $1,275 AUD. Ye ole kerosene canary was choc-a-block full as well. The in-flight roast chicken and potato was pretty good, but it should have been served on a gilded gold plate for that fare price instead of a cardboard box. Crikey, I could fly return to Beijing on CSN for less than $600. With that sort of seasonal revenue coming in you guys should be due your fair share, the cash in the kitty must be ample to pay for it.
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China buys flight schools amid pilot shortage
Exclusive
Andrew Burrell
The Australian
December 23-24 2017, page 1
Chinese companies are swooping
on Australian flight training
schools increasingly stricken by
skyrocketing costs and crippling
red tape, amid predictions that
the nation will be forced to import
scores of commercial pilots from
Asia and Africa in coming years.
The Weekend Australian has
spoken to several of the country’s
350 aviation training businesses
that say they are unprofitable and
are considering selling to the
Chinese. Scores of local firms
have folded in recent years and
several of the larger schools are
now foreign-owned.
China will need and estimated
110,000 new pilots by 2035 but
is relying on other countries for
most of its training because of its
heavy smog, military-controlled
airspace and lack of qualified
teachers who speak English
A federal government report this
week confirmed the local industry’s
drastic decline, showing the number
of general aviation flying hours fell
by 40 per cent -- from 500,000
hours a year to 300,000 hours a
year between 2010 and 2015.
The increasing foreign ownership
in the flight training industry --
particularly the concentration of
Chinese acquisitions-- is raising
concerns among senior security
experts.
Peter Jennings, the executive
director of the Australian Strategic
Policy Institute, said the
“aggregation effect” could be
of the same concern in flight
training as it had been to Scott
Morrison in other sectors.
“It may be acceptable to own
one or two flight training schools
” Mr Jennings said, but if the
Chinese acquired flight training
schools to the point where there
was a dependence on it “the
aggregation effect of that
could be negative from a
government perspective”.
Flying training is seen as vital
to allow Australia to keep up
with the increasing demand
for pilots, with predictions of
a major shortage in coming years.
The landmark study by the
Bureau of Infrastructure,
Transport and Regional Economics
also raised industry fears about
he cost of pilot and maintenance
training, soaring airport charges
and recent regulatory changes
that were “not supported by
adequate justification.”
Aircraft Owners and Pilots
Association chief executive
Ben Morgan said he believed
more than 50 per cent of all
flight training in Australian was
now being carried out by foreign
companies and most of them
were Chinese.
He said it was “realistic” to
predict the industry could be
entirely foreign owned in
the next 10 years. “The
Chinese are cleaning up,”
he said. “Australia is selling
out its flight training industry
to foreign interest.”
Chinese airlines have been
investing heavily in Australian
flight training in recent years.
In 2015, a China Eastern
Airlines subsidiary brought a 50
per cent stake in CAE’s Melbourne
aining school. Its rival, China
Southern Airlines, owns 50 per
cent of a West Australian academy.
One of the biggest regional schools,
Australian International Aviation
College in Port Macquarie is now
owned by Hainan Airlines after
the local operator ran into financial
trouble in 2014.
The Chinese sale was facilitated
by the federal government’s
Austrade agency. The business is
now planning an $18 million training
facility at Kempsey airport to train
Chinese students.
Dick Smith, a former chairman of
the Civil Aviation Safety Authority
, blamed the destruction of the
industry on the former Howard
government’s directive to CASA to
ignore costs in relation to air safety,
which he said had led to the adoption
of the world’s most expensive regulations.
“Australian companies are going
broke because of paperwork
and red tape,” he said. “Now
we have a shortage of pilots.
Does it matter that in five
years...we will have pilots
from developing countries--
from India, Indonesia and
China flying our airlines?”
Mr Smith said he was also
concerned that Australian
flight training companies were
unable to get approval from
China to train Chinese students
in the same way Chinese-run schools
do in Australia.
Mr Morgan, of AOPA, welcomed
the appointment this week of
Barnaby Joyce as Transport
Minister and called on him to urgently
address how the local flight training
industry could deliver crews for
Australian airlines rather than
relying on Asian and African pilots.
He said CASA should allow independent
flight instructors to be used by smaller
businesses, noting that 70 per cent of
training in the US was conducted
by independent instructors.
“If you are not an organisation
with a bucket of cash, there’s
no way you can get involved in flight
training” he said.
“We used to be a leader in flight
training but we have created an
expensive and cumbersome system.”
A CASA spokesman said the
concept of independent flight
instructors was raised during
consultations but was not widely
supported at this time.
“If the aviation community
believes the concept of independent
instructors needs to be looked at
again, CASA is willing to listen to
constructive suggestions,” he said.
Industry veteran John Douglas,
the former head of the Royal
Aero Club of WA, said conditions
were the worst he had seen in 50 years.
He said the number of training
hours at the club had fallen from
36,000 hours a year to 16,000
over the past two decades.
Mr Douglas slammed new CASA
requirements for schools to
spend money to gain new
certification for training.
“The cost of compliance is killing
the industry,” he said.
Bill Whitworth, the owner of
Whitworth Aviation at Bansktown
Airport, recently agreed to sell
his troubled business to a
Chinese company. “They want
to get a foothold here at
Bankstown Airport,” he said.
“They want to bring students
down and train them, starting
with 30 students.”
Another long-term operator at
Bankstown, Aminta Hennessy,
said businesses were also being
hurt by rising airport fees and charges.
She said she had been recently
approached by foreign companies
to sell.
The chief executive of Melbourne
Flight Training, Glen Buckley,
said he had received five offers
from Chinese companies to buy up
to 20 per cent of his business,
but he had so far resisted the temptation to sell.
ADDITIONAL REPORTING: SID MAHER
Exclusive
Andrew Burrell
The Australian
December 23-24 2017, page 1
Chinese companies are swooping
on Australian flight training
schools increasingly stricken by
skyrocketing costs and crippling
red tape, amid predictions that
the nation will be forced to import
scores of commercial pilots from
Asia and Africa in coming years.
The Weekend Australian has
spoken to several of the country’s
350 aviation training businesses
that say they are unprofitable and
are considering selling to the
Chinese. Scores of local firms
have folded in recent years and
several of the larger schools are
now foreign-owned.
China will need and estimated
110,000 new pilots by 2035 but
is relying on other countries for
most of its training because of its
heavy smog, military-controlled
airspace and lack of qualified
teachers who speak English
A federal government report this
week confirmed the local industry’s
drastic decline, showing the number
of general aviation flying hours fell
by 40 per cent -- from 500,000
hours a year to 300,000 hours a
year between 2010 and 2015.
The increasing foreign ownership
in the flight training industry --
particularly the concentration of
Chinese acquisitions-- is raising
concerns among senior security
experts.
Peter Jennings, the executive
director of the Australian Strategic
Policy Institute, said the
“aggregation effect” could be
of the same concern in flight
training as it had been to Scott
Morrison in other sectors.
“It may be acceptable to own
one or two flight training schools
” Mr Jennings said, but if the
Chinese acquired flight training
schools to the point where there
was a dependence on it “the
aggregation effect of that
could be negative from a
government perspective”.
Flying training is seen as vital
to allow Australia to keep up
with the increasing demand
for pilots, with predictions of
a major shortage in coming years.
The landmark study by the
Bureau of Infrastructure,
Transport and Regional Economics
also raised industry fears about
he cost of pilot and maintenance
training, soaring airport charges
and recent regulatory changes
that were “not supported by
adequate justification.”
Aircraft Owners and Pilots
Association chief executive
Ben Morgan said he believed
more than 50 per cent of all
flight training in Australian was
now being carried out by foreign
companies and most of them
were Chinese.
He said it was “realistic” to
predict the industry could be
entirely foreign owned in
the next 10 years. “The
Chinese are cleaning up,”
he said. “Australia is selling
out its flight training industry
to foreign interest.”
Chinese airlines have been
investing heavily in Australian
flight training in recent years.
In 2015, a China Eastern
Airlines subsidiary brought a 50
per cent stake in CAE’s Melbourne
aining school. Its rival, China
Southern Airlines, owns 50 per
cent of a West Australian academy.
One of the biggest regional schools,
Australian International Aviation
College in Port Macquarie is now
owned by Hainan Airlines after
the local operator ran into financial
trouble in 2014.
The Chinese sale was facilitated
by the federal government’s
Austrade agency. The business is
now planning an $18 million training
facility at Kempsey airport to train
Chinese students.
Dick Smith, a former chairman of
the Civil Aviation Safety Authority
, blamed the destruction of the
industry on the former Howard
government’s directive to CASA to
ignore costs in relation to air safety,
which he said had led to the adoption
of the world’s most expensive regulations.
“Australian companies are going
broke because of paperwork
and red tape,” he said. “Now
we have a shortage of pilots.
Does it matter that in five
years...we will have pilots
from developing countries--
from India, Indonesia and
China flying our airlines?”
Mr Smith said he was also
concerned that Australian
flight training companies were
unable to get approval from
China to train Chinese students
in the same way Chinese-run schools
do in Australia.
Mr Morgan, of AOPA, welcomed
the appointment this week of
Barnaby Joyce as Transport
Minister and called on him to urgently
address how the local flight training
industry could deliver crews for
Australian airlines rather than
relying on Asian and African pilots.
He said CASA should allow independent
flight instructors to be used by smaller
businesses, noting that 70 per cent of
training in the US was conducted
by independent instructors.
“If you are not an organisation
with a bucket of cash, there’s
no way you can get involved in flight
training” he said.
“We used to be a leader in flight
training but we have created an
expensive and cumbersome system.”
A CASA spokesman said the
concept of independent flight
instructors was raised during
consultations but was not widely
supported at this time.
“If the aviation community
believes the concept of independent
instructors needs to be looked at
again, CASA is willing to listen to
constructive suggestions,” he said.
Industry veteran John Douglas,
the former head of the Royal
Aero Club of WA, said conditions
were the worst he had seen in 50 years.
He said the number of training
hours at the club had fallen from
36,000 hours a year to 16,000
over the past two decades.
Mr Douglas slammed new CASA
requirements for schools to
spend money to gain new
certification for training.
“The cost of compliance is killing
the industry,” he said.
Bill Whitworth, the owner of
Whitworth Aviation at Bansktown
Airport, recently agreed to sell
his troubled business to a
Chinese company. “They want
to get a foothold here at
Bankstown Airport,” he said.
“They want to bring students
down and train them, starting
with 30 students.”
Another long-term operator at
Bankstown, Aminta Hennessy,
said businesses were also being
hurt by rising airport fees and charges.
She said she had been recently
approached by foreign companies
to sell.
The chief executive of Melbourne
Flight Training, Glen Buckley,
said he had received five offers
from Chinese companies to buy up
to 20 per cent of his business,
but he had so far resisted the temptation to sell.
ADDITIONAL REPORTING: SID MAHER
The Chinese are cleaning up (Paywalled at The Australian)
Apologies for the formatting... best I could do with limited bbcode options.
edit: Report referenced in the article: General Aviation Study
Last edited by CurtainTwitcher; 23rd Dec 2017 at 01:12. Reason: report link added
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Industry veteran John Douglas,
the former head of the Royal
Aero Club of WA, said conditions
were the worst he had seen in 50 years.
He said the number of training
hours at the club had fallen from
36,000 hours a year to 16,000
over the past two decades.
the former head of the Royal
Aero Club of WA, said conditions
were the worst he had seen in 50 years.
He said the number of training
hours at the club had fallen from
36,000 hours a year to 16,000
over the past two decades.
Last edited by Rated De; 23rd Dec 2017 at 05:20.
Having just come out of 3 years as a trainer in China. The training pipeline there (that is, once the cadets finish their initial training outside China they come to us for type rating training on to their allocated fleet type), the system there is getting stressed. People are working longer and longer hours to achieve the business outcomes. The bottleneck will be in China. Whilst Chinese companies might have Australian flight training schools on their acquisition radar, the limiting factor will be the pilot throughput at the Chinese end. No point buying Australian flight schools and pumping out more CPL's if there in no spare capacity in China for making them airline useful.
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Cadets are not the answer to fixing the pilot shortage. Having spoken to a senior check captain recently he acknowledged the quality isn’t there compared to ex GA and his mob wouldn’t go all guns blazing with cadets because the training department couldn’t handle it.
So what’s the solution? Subsidising self funded CPL holders? My local club last year sold a 172 and made redundant an instructor to avoid the bank taking its assets.
Due to the fact that there is nobody self funding CPLs anymore would i be right in saying it’s now easier to get a job out there?
So what’s the solution? Subsidising self funded CPL holders? My local club last year sold a 172 and made redundant an instructor to avoid the bank taking its assets.
Due to the fact that there is nobody self funding CPLs anymore would i be right in saying it’s now easier to get a job out there?
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So what’s the solution? Subsidising self funded CPL holders? My local club last year sold a 172 and made redundant an instructor to avoid the bank taking its assets.
Due to the fact that there is nobody self funding CPLs anymore would i be right in saying it’s now easier to get a job out there?
Due to the fact that there is nobody self funding CPLs anymore would i be right in saying it’s now easier to get a job out there?
Airlines have been consulted for a long time about the impending shortage. Unfortunately for all the paradigm of abundant supply meant any attempt to show the problem was laughed down. It was also readily evident that the apparatus set up and that included the recruiting, training, HR and IR model saw supply as a given.
Aging populations are all over the western hemisphere, the Second World War responsible for the single largest generation in history.
Just how does an airline change direction when their system cannot see the fundamental flaw in their model?
Of course there are airlines that have happy and loyal employees and readers of Pprune know that there were leaders that did things a different way. From Gordon Bethune to Herb Kelleher and closer to home Rob Fyfe airlines can control cost secure their revenue and also have happier employees. As Mr O'Leary is finding out supply is limited and money is not likely to fix their problems. Their business model needs to change, but ultimately will it? Just how an airline tackles declining supply and experience levels is going to be fascinating to watch.
For the incumbent airline CEO in Australia, as this thing bites it may well be important to remember that sincerity is very difficult to fake.
Australian airlines were smug in their own ignorance. With GA and the military, as well as the occasional shock keeping the supply of pilots nicely ahead of demand, the model they developed was designed to keep downward pressure on wages. It certainly worked.
Divisive, adversarial models may well have had their day, it will be brave CEOs that declare this and decide to unwind some of the more complex administrative empires their businesses possess.
With GA and the military, as well as the occasional shock keeping the supply of pilots nicely ahead of demand, the model they developed was designed to keep downward pressure on wages. It certainly worked.
Eg, what was the ratio of Australian 737 Captain salary to average national wage in
1970
1980
1990
2000
2010
2017?
If anyone has been flying jets for 45 years can you give us some figures so we can google the relevant average salary?
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Can anyone tell me how long MECIR and MCC been a prerequisite for airline applicants? I assume this wasn't a factor in days gone by.
For those that don't get given either of these through an employer I can see why people would be deterred. An extra $25-30k on top of the initial CPL for no real promise of a job. Offshore helicopter operators seem to be going down the same road too, except the IR is double the cost. Not worth the trouble really.
For those that don't get given either of these through an employer I can see why people would be deterred. An extra $25-30k on top of the initial CPL for no real promise of a job. Offshore helicopter operators seem to be going down the same road too, except the IR is double the cost. Not worth the trouble really.
..Cadets are not the answer to fixing the pilot shortage. Having spoken to a senior check captain recently he acknowledged the quality isn’t there compared to ex GA and his mob wouldn’t go all guns blazing with cadets because the training department couldn’t handle it...
Nunc est bibendum
It’s been shown to work in Australia. It worked in QF in the early 70s and they proved it again in the 90s. In the late 90s there were a host of LH F/Os in their mid to late 20s that were ex cadets.
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LHFO in your mid to late twenties? How times have changed! 
I tend to think our training systems in Australia are robust enough for competent and appropriate pilot development as cadet entrants. It’s likely that cadet programs will continue to be part of the balance, but increasingly so overseas.
I tend to think our training systems in Australia are robust enough for competent and appropriate pilot development as cadet entrants. It’s likely that cadet programs will continue to be part of the balance, but increasingly so overseas.
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Maybe, I don't know. But in the space I'm familiar with, cadets are the answer. Apply prudent candidate selection, then train them from zero to CPL. Once that is done put them through conversion training onto a fleet type.
- Not sure that airline managers accustomed to having excess supply of already qualified applicants will accept this.
- Not sure a training system that has been pared back to absolute minimum can cope with less experience. It will require more sessions, not less and this is a problem for airline management.
In the case of a supply issue, whether for cultural or strategy issues, airlines that embrace the expense(or is it investment?) and decide that more resources, not less are needed will secure supply.
For airlines accustomed to an oversupply of qualified pilots, with ancillary systems like recruiting and HR operating on the same premise, it may be difficult to accept and ultimately change the entrenched model.
If an airlines response to an undersupply of pilots to a subcontractor is to place a secret unwritten ban on employing pilots from that subcontractor to fill positions in the parent airline, they have obviously not even started to get the picture. They cant see that the reason for the under supply in the first place is their choice to screw pilots down under a contract company. It's idiotic!
The only way to combat the staunch resistance to change is to stand firm and to gain perspective on your own worth. Pilots are pure and simply a profit centre, we make for our employers many times our own salary, year in, year out. They need us as much as we need them, the only difference is they have entire departments devoted to convincing you otherwise.
Slow down, think the deal through, find the loopholes and traps, then apply your value to that deal and you'll have your answer.
Merry Christmas all, may we be having a very different discussion in a years time!
The only way to combat the staunch resistance to change is to stand firm and to gain perspective on your own worth. Pilots are pure and simply a profit centre, we make for our employers many times our own salary, year in, year out. They need us as much as we need them, the only difference is they have entire departments devoted to convincing you otherwise.
Slow down, think the deal through, find the loopholes and traps, then apply your value to that deal and you'll have your answer.
Merry Christmas all, may we be having a very different discussion in a years time!