Virgin Australia recruitment
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Silver Slueth, why is it a disgrace. If we look at the position that each holds, their respective responsibilites and career progression.
SO - has the Capt, FO above them, minimum responsibility in that sense.
CSM - is basically the Capt of the FAs. Has to manage a large team to ensure success.
SO - large potential for career progression, normally the start of ones airline career.
CSM - this would be at the other end of their career after years of being a FA.
I look at it like a Pilot/Flying Officer in the airforce flying a C-17 or herc. The WOFF or SGT Loadmaster is probably making 15-20K more then them. But the Loadmaster has been around for a longer career so far, the new pilot is starting their career.
SO - has the Capt, FO above them, minimum responsibility in that sense.
CSM - is basically the Capt of the FAs. Has to manage a large team to ensure success.
SO - large potential for career progression, normally the start of ones airline career.
CSM - this would be at the other end of their career after years of being a FA.
I look at it like a Pilot/Flying Officer in the airforce flying a C-17 or herc. The WOFF or SGT Loadmaster is probably making 15-20K more then them. But the Loadmaster has been around for a longer career so far, the new pilot is starting their career.
Join Date: Feb 2011
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I'm not sure what the cut-off date was for the MCR for the ATPL, but the requirement to have it presently is a directive from CASA.
I am a bit surprised that successful candidates have still not been offered a course. The only reason I can think of is that you may have nominated a base preference that currently has no vacancies? Other than that, I'm not too sure.
I am a bit surprised that successful candidates have still not been offered a course. The only reason I can think of is that you may have nominated a base preference that currently has no vacancies? Other than that, I'm not too sure.
Silver Slueth, why is it a disgrace. If we look at the position that each holds, their respective responsibilites and career progression.
SO - has the Capt, FO above them, minimum responsibility in that sense.
CSM - is basically the Capt of the FAs. Has to manage a large team to ensure success.
SO - large potential for career progression, normally the start of ones airline career.
CSM - this would be at the other end of their career after years of being a FA.
I look at it like a Pilot/Flying Officer in the airforce flying a C-17 or herc. The WOFF or SGT Loadmaster is probably making 15-20K more then them. But the Loadmaster has been around for a longer career so far, the new pilot is starting their career.
SO - has the Capt, FO above them, minimum responsibility in that sense.
CSM - is basically the Capt of the FAs. Has to manage a large team to ensure success.
SO - large potential for career progression, normally the start of ones airline career.
CSM - this would be at the other end of their career after years of being a FA.
I look at it like a Pilot/Flying Officer in the airforce flying a C-17 or herc. The WOFF or SGT Loadmaster is probably making 15-20K more then them. But the Loadmaster has been around for a longer career so far, the new pilot is starting their career.
Perhaps, but the CSM has the Capt, FO AND THE SO above them so even less responsibility.
The SO has probably been in the industry for nearly a decade so hardly "at the start of their career".
And whilst we're benchmarking pay vs "time in career", ' I've been in this game longer than a lot management so I guess I can look forward to my pay increase to be on par with them?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Stretch06,
The SO is a senior officer of the company and ranks above the CSM, requiring far more training, skill and oversight. Surely they should be paid accordingly?
The SO is a senior officer of the company and ranks above the CSM, requiring far more training, skill and oversight. Surely they should be paid accordingly?
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I did hear that after the first round of applications back in Aug that they only got 140 odd applicants and of those only a very small few (<12) had MCC or better (read ATPL).
Join Date: Mar 2007
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While we are also at it, without the SO or SOs the company would require another captain or FO like other airlines who are paid a fair bit more.
Yes, the CSM manages a team and that's fair enough, but can the CSM initiate an emergency descent? Handle an incruise engine shutdown? Or divert the aeroplane and land if the operating crew is incapacitated?
The SO can do all of those things. The SO could also easily do the CSMs job if called upon without to much bother.
Yes, the CSM manages a team and that's fair enough, but can the CSM initiate an emergency descent? Handle an incruise engine shutdown? Or divert the aeroplane and land if the operating crew is incapacitated?
The SO can do all of those things. The SO could also easily do the CSMs job if called upon without to much bother.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Mach,
I don't disagree, especially with the training and skill part. I understand that the SO 'outranks' the CSM. However, the Pilot/Flying Officer, outranks a SGT/WOFF from the day they start, but that doesn't mean the loadmaster SGT/WOFF deserves less then Pilot/Flying Officer pay.
One could argue that instructors deserve more then SO wages, because without the instructors, the SO would never of gain a licence, learnt the skill to be able to hold a pilots licence.
I don't disagree, especially with the training and skill part. I understand that the SO 'outranks' the CSM. However, the Pilot/Flying Officer, outranks a SGT/WOFF from the day they start, but that doesn't mean the loadmaster SGT/WOFF deserves less then Pilot/Flying Officer pay.
One could argue that instructors deserve more then SO wages, because without the instructors, the SO would never of gain a licence, learnt the skill to be able to hold a pilots licence.
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Stretch, are you on the company negotiating panel? If not you should be.
Bob Tait should be paid more than any pilot in the world because he writes the books that the instructors read to learn how to teach the SOs get their licence to become captains.
As alluded to by another post, one position involves hundreds of thousands of dollars of training, years of work and (although not ultimate responsibility) a level of responsibility high enough to be dragged by the tie over the coals for a phuck up of ANY magnitude. They are part of the operating crew.
The other requires a 'high level of customer service'.
You're kidding yourself mate
Bob Tait should be paid more than any pilot in the world because he writes the books that the instructors read to learn how to teach the SOs get their licence to become captains.
As alluded to by another post, one position involves hundreds of thousands of dollars of training, years of work and (although not ultimate responsibility) a level of responsibility high enough to be dragged by the tie over the coals for a phuck up of ANY magnitude. They are part of the operating crew.
The other requires a 'high level of customer service'.
You're kidding yourself mate
I know someone who just got an invitation to the 777 SO/ 737 FO slot. No ATPL (theory only) about 2000-2500 hours, 800 multi, no turboprop/multicrew.
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There is no stone tablet anywhere that says pilots have to be paid more than Cabin Crew. They are separate markets and the market will decide. At the moment the market is gradually tilting toward the pilots, but is it enough to force a meaningful increase? We should find out in a few months.
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Multi Crew on the 777, not sure what that's about.
The only time the primary boys turn around is:
1. There has been a stuff up.
2. They're handing you their jepp's to put away.
The only time the primary boys turn around is:
1. There has been a stuff up.
2. They're handing you their jepp's to put away.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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