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Virgin Australia recruitment

Old 23rd Oct 2016, 10:11
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by romeocharlie View Post
Because it's still better than flogging a 50yo piston around on 45k/year
Well with that attitude why not become a flight attendant and then you can make even more money.
What are the unions doing about this? Isn't the EBA being negotiated atm.
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 21:25
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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Silver Slueth, why is it a disgrace. If we look at the position that each holds, their respective responsibilites and career progression.

SO - has the Capt, FO above them, minimum responsibility in that sense.
CSM - is basically the Capt of the FAs. Has to manage a large team to ensure success.

SO - large potential for career progression, normally the start of ones airline career.
CSM - this would be at the other end of their career after years of being a FA.

I look at it like a Pilot/Flying Officer in the airforce flying a C-17 or herc. The WOFF or SGT Loadmaster is probably making 15-20K more then them. But the Loadmaster has been around for a longer career so far, the new pilot is starting their career.
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 21:47
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 62
I'm not sure what the cut-off date was for the MCR for the ATPL, but the requirement to have it presently is a directive from CASA.

I am a bit surprised that successful candidates have still not been offered a course. The only reason I can think of is that you may have nominated a base preference that currently has no vacancies? Other than that, I'm not too sure.
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 22:19
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
Stretch06

S/O moves on, CSM moves on.

Replace an S/O and then replace a CSM. Let's see how that works out.
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 22:31
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NT
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Stretch06 View Post
Silver Slueth, why is it a disgrace. If we look at the position that each holds, their respective responsibilites and career progression.

SO - has the Capt, FO above them, minimum responsibility in that sense.
CSM - is basically the Capt of the FAs. Has to manage a large team to ensure success.

SO - large potential for career progression, normally the start of ones airline career.
CSM - this would be at the other end of their career after years of being a FA.

I look at it like a Pilot/Flying Officer in the airforce flying a C-17 or herc. The WOFF or SGT Loadmaster is probably making 15-20K more then them. But the Loadmaster has been around for a longer career so far, the new pilot is starting their career.
"SO - has the Capt, FO above them, minimum responsibility in that sense."

Perhaps, but the CSM has the Capt, FO AND THE SO above them so even less responsibility.

The SO has probably been in the industry for nearly a decade so hardly "at the start of their career".

And whilst we're benchmarking pay vs "time in career", ' I've been in this game longer than a lot management so I guess I can look forward to my pay increase to be on par with them?
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Old 23rd Oct 2016, 22:33
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Posts: 359
Stretch06,

The SO is a senior officer of the company and ranks above the CSM, requiring far more training, skill and oversight. Surely they should be paid accordingly?
MACH082 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2016, 23:16
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 16
Talk is cheap. The EBA vote will be interesting in that it will probably be a resounding "no" vote from SOs unless a proper offer is presented.
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 00:25
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 37
I did hear that after the first round of applications back in Aug that they only got 140 odd applicants and of those only a very small few (<12) had MCC or better (read ATPL).
I have over 1000 hours multi-crew experience above 5,700kg and the MCC dispensation that goes with a TR on a multi-crew aircraft. That has yielded me nix, nada, nothing from Virgin, so guessing that an ATPL is the minimum to even get a look-in for a 777 or ATR gig?
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 02:51
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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While we are also at it, without the SO or SOs the company would require another captain or FO like other airlines who are paid a fair bit more.

Yes, the CSM manages a team and that's fair enough, but can the CSM initiate an emergency descent? Handle an incruise engine shutdown? Or divert the aeroplane and land if the operating crew is incapacitated?

The SO can do all of those things. The SO could also easily do the CSMs job if called upon without to much bother.
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 06:20
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 122
Mach,

I don't disagree, especially with the training and skill part. I understand that the SO 'outranks' the CSM. However, the Pilot/Flying Officer, outranks a SGT/WOFF from the day they start, but that doesn't mean the loadmaster SGT/WOFF deserves less then Pilot/Flying Officer pay.

One could argue that instructors deserve more then SO wages, because without the instructors, the SO would never of gain a licence, learnt the skill to be able to hold a pilots licence.
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 07:41
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bran Castle
Posts: 178
Ahhh Pammy, why don't we all become flight attendants and get paid the big bucks - weeeeeeee!!!
romeocharlie is online now  
Old 25th Oct 2016, 00:13
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: fs2000
Posts: 16
Stretch, are you on the company negotiating panel? If not you should be.

Bob Tait should be paid more than any pilot in the world because he writes the books that the instructors read to learn how to teach the SOs get their licence to become captains.

As alluded to by another post, one position involves hundreds of thousands of dollars of training, years of work and (although not ultimate responsibility) a level of responsibility high enough to be dragged by the tie over the coals for a phuck up of ANY magnitude. They are part of the operating crew.

The other requires a 'high level of customer service'.

You're kidding yourself mate
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Old 25th Oct 2016, 03:38
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by ...think or thwim View Post
I hold a full ATPL and only got an invitation for the ATR position.

My guess is their chasing multi-crew experience and ATPL for the SO 777 slots.

I know someone who just got an invitation to the 777 SO/ 737 FO slot. No ATPL (theory only) about 2000-2500 hours, 800 multi, no turboprop/multicrew.
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Old 25th Oct 2016, 06:10
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bolivia
Posts: 432
There is no stone tablet anywhere that says pilots have to be paid more than Cabin Crew. They are separate markets and the market will decide. At the moment the market is gradually tilting toward the pilots, but is it enough to force a meaningful increase? We should find out in a few months.
Vorsicht is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2016, 06:28
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sydney
Posts: 5
Multi Crew on the 777, not sure what that's about.
The only time the primary boys turn around is:

1. There has been a stuff up.
2. They're handing you their jepp's to put away.
Barry_Crocker is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2016, 06:29
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by kirkbridge View Post
The other requires a 'high level of customer service'.

You're kidding yourself mate
You're kidding yourself mate with a view of cabin crew (and in particular the cabin manager) like that.
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Old 25th Oct 2016, 07:40
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Oz
Posts: 81
FTS: I agree...kirkbridge...you either lack multi-crew experience, personality, any sense of teamwork, or a brain....or all of the above!
Density is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2016, 09:54
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: fs2000
Posts: 16
Classic! The name 'Density' sums it up.

White with one thanks mate
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Old 25th Oct 2016, 10:47
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Oz
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by kirkbridge View Post
Classic! The name 'Density' sums it up.

White with one thanks mate
No problem...just double check it's a teabag won't you?
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Old 2nd Nov 2016, 09:33
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 37
Anyone willing to shed some light on the type of tech questions they're asking in the interview?
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