Qantas Recruitment
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There’s a lot of info buried back in this thread.
No short term contracts. Permanent only.
Not many expats. Mostly Aussies from our rich multicultural history.
About 2500 pilots in mainline.
About 800 stick hours per annum.
I put a post up about S/O pay a bunch of pages back.
No short term contracts. Permanent only.
Not many expats. Mostly Aussies from our rich multicultural history.
About 2500 pilots in mainline.
About 800 stick hours per annum.
I put a post up about S/O pay a bunch of pages back.
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If they can shut down an airline for red ties they can certainly cancel an order because the plebs had the temerity to hold meeting about recent developments that could delay even further what is the possibly the worlds slowest airline promotional system.
/s
/s
With a SH command at BA another 'legacy' carrier running around 7 years, it is my understanding, were one want to stay within range of schools,family etc on the east coast, then a SH command at Qantas is circa 20 years...
Qantas' only card is 'living in Australia' something they have aggressively defended in years past, whilst simultaneous undermining everything a job at Qantas (including a career path) was about.
With EK now outsourcing to CAE, Qantas may soon realise that their home ground advantage is undermined by Asian carriers with decent commuting contracts.
Demographics also will undermine their fear driven adversarial IR model.
Last edited by Rated De; 2nd Mar 2018 at 08:30.
Hooray! Finally some common sense has prevailed in regards to the education requirements. Well done Qantas.
Good luck to all the internal and external applicants this time round!
Question- should the 33% of cadets that were rejected last time even bother again? They've been treated rather like dirt thus far.
Question- should the 33% of cadets that were rejected last time even bother again? They've been treated rather like dirt thus far.
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Oh please headmaster.
I know plenty of pilots who never did year 12. Doesn't mean they cant be good at the job! Infact based on their ability when I have flown with them, I would rate them quite a high chance for getting into mainline.
Definitely better than some of the talent thats been getting in thats for sure!
I know plenty of pilots who never did year 12. Doesn't mean they cant be good at the job! Infact based on their ability when I have flown with them, I would rate them quite a high chance for getting into mainline.
Definitely better than some of the talent thats been getting in thats for sure!
The dumbing down continues
Before I kick it off, some fodder for those that want to attack me.
Yes, I have English, Maths, Physics and a Uni degree.
Yes, I was on the holdfile at QF for 2 ˝ years before being told “don’t call here anymore”.
Yes, I was really bitter about it, but I got over it and am happy enough with my job, but more important I am super happy with my life outside of work.
Yes I work for the group,
No, I won’t be applying.
So here goes.
QF have been caught with their pants down, no recruitment for years, long wait times for upgrades, the shutdown, fear of redundancy, LWOP (so pilots could go and see how the rest of the world live), and now they have to drop the very requirements that allowed them to pick and choose the applicants.
HOORAY everyone say out there in Regional and GA Land.
Get your CV’s updated I say, tout suite, ditch the English, Maths or Physics courses, finish off your ATPL’s, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. If you want to fly for the big boys, make sure you are ready to do it in the next couple of years.
But let’s look at this from another angle.
QF are going through a “game changing time”.
Shiny new aircraft, new routes, new uniforms, but what else, new contract terms for the 787, new minimum education standards for applicants, a new deal with Jetconnect, a new cadet program at the new flying school, a new A320 operation in the West.
So, they need to start ramping up, they are training flat out onto the 787 (IMHO the real reason they didn’t take 787 no. 9), backfilling onto the other fleets, they can’t release 737 pilot to go to other fleets, they’ve even ramped up training on the 747 for new hires and upgrades to F/O and Capt, all this on a fleet that is supposed to be dying?
With all this going on they struggle to attract applicants because the prospect of sitting in the back seat for 3 to 10 years is not everyone’s Cup of Latte.
There are pilots in J*, Virgin, REX and all the “Links” with a “letter of intent” from QF recruiting who, if they haven’t already, are probably on the verge of a command and the QF 787 S/O training wage just doesn’t stack up.
They could get lucky, as a lot have, and get a 330, 380 or 747 S/O slot, but who can take the chance? And how long before you can get back to a window seat?
So what do they do to crew these new aeroplanes? Well, QF have looked around and wondered, why don’t these Regonal/GA types apply here? We are the best airline in the world, hell, we are “changing the game”
Oh, they don’t have year 12 Maths, English or Physics, they couldn’t possibly be good enough for QF.
So, let’s look to the subsidiary’s to fill the spots. WHAAAAT, these pilots don’t have English/Maths/Physics, how do they possibly fly Jet/turboprop aeroplanes?
So, let’s send out an internal memo spouting how progressive we are that we now recognise all the hard work you pilots have put in to get where you are and yes, the study you’ve done is now “equivalent” to those other subjects and we’d love to have you working for us, because we are in the **** big time.
So, if they get a whole load of internal applicants, then open it up to Joe GA, they’ll probably get the 200 -300 pilots they need to fill in the 3-4 years before the Sausage Center of Excellence starts pumping out compliant, cheap, indebted pilots to fill the back seats in the future world domination plans.
But what does this really mean for the future?
Firstly, QF must have pilots, to the detriment of all other subsidiaries. So who is going to fly the Dash 8’s, 717’s, F100’s? Hell even Network are struggling to crew the shiny QF painted A320’s.
Secondly, I’m really happy we can now have all our study recognised as.....what? A diploma?
How much does your standard school leaver with a diploma earn? Certainly not what we think we are worth flying shiny Jets around the sky.
So, to answer the questions:
Firstly, 457 visas 2 years only, (the companys are pushing for 4). Bring in a compliant workforce on the promise of a great lifestyle job in sunny Australia. It’s pretty hard to fight back if you are under threat of having your visa revoked. (Whether they can actually do it or not)
And B: if you pilots are just basic school leavers, with a “diploma” then why should we be paying you all this money to sit in the back and do nothing, I mean, we helped you out, trained you at our (your) expense, and now you want to turn around and get paid like a Uni Graduate, hell, you don’t even have English, Maths or Physics
B scale anyone?
Now, I know I’m cynical, I never used to be, but I think this “Industry” did it too me. If you don’t think it can happen here, have a look at what’s been going on in Cathay and the big US airlines, Norwegian, Ryan Air etc.
The constant moving of the deck chairs, Jetconnect, Q’Link, Jetstar, National Jet, J* NZ, Network, the MOU, it’s all part of a much bigger Industrial picture.
Unfortunately, we fall into the same trap every time, we only look at the hand with the shiny Jet in it, we never look to see what they have in the other hand which is behind their back
So, if you are eligible, apply the **** out of it, apply to everyone, if you miss out on QF, you might get a gig at J*, VA, or the others. There is a “pilot shortage”, they just don’t want to admit it.
But, when you get a job, join a Union, campaign hard, be Industrially savvy, don’t trust them when they show you the shiny Jet, but most importantly of all, STICK TOGETHER. It’s our only chance against these bastards
Yes, I have English, Maths, Physics and a Uni degree.
Yes, I was on the holdfile at QF for 2 ˝ years before being told “don’t call here anymore”.
Yes, I was really bitter about it, but I got over it and am happy enough with my job, but more important I am super happy with my life outside of work.
Yes I work for the group,
No, I won’t be applying.
So here goes.
QF have been caught with their pants down, no recruitment for years, long wait times for upgrades, the shutdown, fear of redundancy, LWOP (so pilots could go and see how the rest of the world live), and now they have to drop the very requirements that allowed them to pick and choose the applicants.
HOORAY everyone say out there in Regional and GA Land.
Get your CV’s updated I say, tout suite, ditch the English, Maths or Physics courses, finish off your ATPL’s, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. If you want to fly for the big boys, make sure you are ready to do it in the next couple of years.
But let’s look at this from another angle.
QF are going through a “game changing time”.
Shiny new aircraft, new routes, new uniforms, but what else, new contract terms for the 787, new minimum education standards for applicants, a new deal with Jetconnect, a new cadet program at the new flying school, a new A320 operation in the West.
So, they need to start ramping up, they are training flat out onto the 787 (IMHO the real reason they didn’t take 787 no. 9), backfilling onto the other fleets, they can’t release 737 pilot to go to other fleets, they’ve even ramped up training on the 747 for new hires and upgrades to F/O and Capt, all this on a fleet that is supposed to be dying?
With all this going on they struggle to attract applicants because the prospect of sitting in the back seat for 3 to 10 years is not everyone’s Cup of Latte.
There are pilots in J*, Virgin, REX and all the “Links” with a “letter of intent” from QF recruiting who, if they haven’t already, are probably on the verge of a command and the QF 787 S/O training wage just doesn’t stack up.
They could get lucky, as a lot have, and get a 330, 380 or 747 S/O slot, but who can take the chance? And how long before you can get back to a window seat?
So what do they do to crew these new aeroplanes? Well, QF have looked around and wondered, why don’t these Regonal/GA types apply here? We are the best airline in the world, hell, we are “changing the game”
Oh, they don’t have year 12 Maths, English or Physics, they couldn’t possibly be good enough for QF.
So, let’s look to the subsidiary’s to fill the spots. WHAAAAT, these pilots don’t have English/Maths/Physics, how do they possibly fly Jet/turboprop aeroplanes?
So, let’s send out an internal memo spouting how progressive we are that we now recognise all the hard work you pilots have put in to get where you are and yes, the study you’ve done is now “equivalent” to those other subjects and we’d love to have you working for us, because we are in the **** big time.
So, if they get a whole load of internal applicants, then open it up to Joe GA, they’ll probably get the 200 -300 pilots they need to fill in the 3-4 years before the Sausage Center of Excellence starts pumping out compliant, cheap, indebted pilots to fill the back seats in the future world domination plans.
But what does this really mean for the future?
Firstly, QF must have pilots, to the detriment of all other subsidiaries. So who is going to fly the Dash 8’s, 717’s, F100’s? Hell even Network are struggling to crew the shiny QF painted A320’s.
Secondly, I’m really happy we can now have all our study recognised as.....what? A diploma?
How much does your standard school leaver with a diploma earn? Certainly not what we think we are worth flying shiny Jets around the sky.
So, to answer the questions:
Firstly, 457 visas
2 years only, (the companys are pushing for 4). Bring in a compliant workforce on the promise of a great lifestyle job in sunny Australia. It’s pretty hard to fight back if you are under threat of having your visa revoked. (Whether they can actually do it or not)And B: if you pilots are just basic school leavers, with a “diploma” then why should we be paying you all this money to sit in the back and do nothing, I mean, we helped you out, trained you at our (your) expense, and now you want to turn around and get paid like a Uni Graduate, hell, you don’t even have English, Maths or Physics
B scale anyone?
Now, I know I’m cynical, I never used to be, but I think this “Industry” did it too me. If you don’t think it can happen here, have a look at what’s been going on in Cathay and the big US airlines, Norwegian, Ryan Air etc.
The constant moving of the deck chairs, Jetconnect, Q’Link, Jetstar, National Jet, J* NZ, Network, the MOU, it’s all part of a much bigger Industrial picture.
Unfortunately, we fall into the same trap every time, we only look at the hand with the shiny Jet in it, we never look to see what they have in the other hand which is behind their back
So, if you are eligible, apply the **** out of it, apply to everyone, if you miss out on QF, you might get a gig at J*, VA, or the others. There is a “pilot shortage”, they just don’t want to admit it.
But, when you get a job, join a Union, campaign hard, be Industrially savvy, don’t trust them when they show you the shiny Jet, but most importantly of all, STICK TOGETHER. It’s our only chance against these bastards
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So, if you are eligible, apply the **** out of it, apply to everyone, if you miss out on QF, you might get a gig at J*, VA, or the others. There is a “pilot shortage”, they just don’t want to admit it.
Qantas IR succeeded, they drove terms and conditions to the gutter. They kept down labour unit cost. People no longer see aviation as a well remunerated rewarding career that requires a long term financial and study commitment. Bravo Qantas IR, Oldmeadow did it! He killed the golden goose.
Qantas pilots call it a wasted decade. They grounded it, locked everyone out, called it 'terminal' then miraculously transformed it, all while not ordering a single aircraft for mainline. They did benefit personally.
Like somehow a 787 with LN 615 being 'a game changer' and denying a career path for their own pilots, they now claim to want a 'flight training' academy (taxpayer on the hook no doubt)
Qantas management have basked in their own magnificence for the years following the 'transformation' The reality is they are dollars short and years late.
Watching it is rather amusing. Alan Joyce was Ireland's greatest export..
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Rated De
Mate you are soo spot on, airlines in this country have been constraining the T & C's of Australian pilots since Ansett went broke. The fact is this shortage has been on for 18 years at least and now the romance has gone out of the game. There just isn't as many kids out there wanting to be pilots anymore, theres more money and a better lifestyle doing other stuff. The funny thing is they (management) just didn't see this coming and now a major capacity constraint is retarding the expansion of ALL Australian airlines. Yes girls and boys its called a MAJOR PILOT SHORTAGE that can't be fixed by hiring DEC's or from OS.
Enjoy the show.
SN
Mate you are soo spot on, airlines in this country have been constraining the T & C's of Australian pilots since Ansett went broke. The fact is this shortage has been on for 18 years at least and now the romance has gone out of the game. There just isn't as many kids out there wanting to be pilots anymore, theres more money and a better lifestyle doing other stuff. The funny thing is they (management) just didn't see this coming and now a major capacity constraint is retarding the expansion of ALL Australian airlines. Yes girls and boys its called a MAJOR PILOT SHORTAGE that can't be fixed by hiring DEC's or from OS.
Enjoy the show.
SN
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0161; 6th Mar 2018 at 10:34. Reason: Spelling
Some interesting points ROJ APPROVED and I agree with the basic thrust of your post.
Except these points...
Pretty ease to crew it since it is a seagull at present.
Well Ryan Air, or Mr O more specifically had to eat a big slice of humble pie and increase pilot pay.
In the US I understand there are bonuses now and also I keep seeing ads everywhere for the E3 visas trying to coax Australians to the US.
https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/file...f?v=1508473632
Page 3 on the above link shows the number of each type of pilot licence issued and held.
The highlight is that numbers seem to have stabilised after falling off a cliff about ten years ago but still declining.
In 2013/14 annual report CASA said they issued 533 ATPLs in the 2016/17 report they issued 190. Bloody big drop.
In 2013/14 there were 7,287 ATPL holders in 2016/17 there were 7240. A modest drop.
Have a read.
Except these points...
Hell even Network are struggling to crew the shiny QF painted A320’s.
have a look at what’s been going on in Cathay and the big US airlines, Norwegian, Ryan Air etc.
In the US I understand there are bonuses now and also I keep seeing ads everywhere for the E3 visas trying to coax Australians to the US.
https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/file...f?v=1508473632
Page 3 on the above link shows the number of each type of pilot licence issued and held.
The highlight is that numbers seem to have stabilised after falling off a cliff about ten years ago but still declining.
In 2013/14 annual report CASA said they issued 533 ATPLs in the 2016/17 report they issued 190. Bloody big drop.
In 2013/14 there were 7,287 ATPL holders in 2016/17 there were 7240. A modest drop.
Have a read.
Last edited by Icarus2001; 6th Mar 2018 at 11:07.
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The Storm Is Only Brewing
It's only cooking and it won't be called a shortage...carnage perhaps.
Can you imagine WHEN not IF, the major guns in Asia and the Middle East start recruiting in hundreds for Australian based roles. Aussies and E3's are becoming the norm in the USA. Very soon the majors will also be singing aussie aussie aussie! The US Air Force is crying for pilots. I know of a guy in the US finalising plans to fast track experienced foreign commercial pilots to the US Airforce for 5 years, then guaranteed placement with one of the majors.
This is only the beginnings.
L.B
Can you imagine WHEN not IF, the major guns in Asia and the Middle East start recruiting in hundreds for Australian based roles. Aussies and E3's are becoming the norm in the USA. Very soon the majors will also be singing aussie aussie aussie! The US Air Force is crying for pilots. I know of a guy in the US finalising plans to fast track experienced foreign commercial pilots to the US Airforce for 5 years, then guaranteed placement with one of the majors.
This is only the beginnings.
L.B
OK...ya just can't just leave that hangin' with no more details.
I'd be VERY surprised the USAF would take foreign nationals into the service for a mere 5 year commitment, if at all...national security and so forth.
If anything, with the current tour for US citizens at 10 years after getting their wings (the reserves and national guard would be shorter), the commitment for US citizens needs to be shortened to attract more aspirants.
Is your friend actually in contact and working with USAF brass or just hatching a plan yet to be presented, without a response from the USAF ?
Last edited by bafanguy; 6th Mar 2018 at 13:13.
You don’t need 250hrs command for an ATPL. You only need 70hrs command then the rest can be ICUS, which cadets in most airlines log when PF.
Littlebird,
OK...ya just can't just leave that hangin' with no more details.
I'd be VERY surprised the USAF would take foreign nationals into the service for a mere 5 year commitment, if at all...national security and so forth.
If anything, with the current tour for US citizens at 10 years after getting their wings (the reserves and national guard would be shorter), the commitment for US citizens needs to be shortened to attract more aspirants.
Is your friend actually in contact and working with USAF brass or just hatching a plan yet to be presented, without a response from the USAF ?
OK...ya just can't just leave that hangin' with no more details.
I'd be VERY surprised the USAF would take foreign nationals into the service for a mere 5 year commitment, if at all...national security and so forth.
If anything, with the current tour for US citizens at 10 years after getting their wings (the reserves and national guard would be shorter), the commitment for US citizens needs to be shortened to attract more aspirants.
Is your friend actually in contact and working with USAF brass or just hatching a plan yet to be presented, without a response from the USAF ?
Well, it would be quite the Grand Plan.
The USAF has admitted to this. Not sure what "experimenting" means but it would involve US citizens:
“Gen. Wilson said the Air Force is experimenting with partnering with universities to bring in students who have already gone through their aviation programs. Those students would then go through an abbreviated Air Force pilot training program in the T-1, potentially cutting the timeline in half, he said.”
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...vere-shortage/
Perhaps Littlebird will return and fill in the details.
The USAF has admitted to this. Not sure what "experimenting" means but it would involve US citizens:
“Gen. Wilson said the Air Force is experimenting with partnering with universities to bring in students who have already gone through their aviation programs. Those students would then go through an abbreviated Air Force pilot training program in the T-1, potentially cutting the timeline in half, he said.”
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...vere-shortage/
Perhaps Littlebird will return and fill in the details.
Last edited by bafanguy; 6th Mar 2018 at 21:04.
