Qantas Recruitment
No mainline pilot has lost his job (CR) as a result of these moves so proving harm is very difficult.
Transmission of business rules set an impossibly high bar to fight a case against.
A court case against an obvious shell company subsidy gets thrown out on jurisdictional grounds.
Even taking legal industrial action of the most minor variety gets shut down by the federal government.
AIPA very much has the cards stacked against it in fighting this erosion of flying. Despite that, after 2 decades of Qantas trying, mainline pilots still hold on to the majority of their hard won conditions. That ought to be more amazing.
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All the guys claims are incorrect
1. Only 12 aircraft
2. Never fly internationally
3. All to upgrade in 5 years
The letter just says "expect" & based on the first 7 years of the century it is likely a reasonable call. QF don't run or control the US banking system & loan markets
& they didn't know it was about to collapse, in a lot of countries 25% plus of pilots hit the street. Remember age 65 had just come in & management didn't know how
that would impact. At least half of the guys stayed the full extra five years. & some beyond that , went to 737 & became unwell
Massive impact on upgrade
People claiming it was said "international doesn't fit low cost" might have been , probably just management being candid with you. LCC up to that point was primarily domestic
, nobody had really made medium range low cost work. The point is that it was not said that JQ would "never" fly internationally or would "never" exceed 12 airframes
Obviously been repeated so often that many actually believe it
Great Yarns , but that is all they are
1. Only 12 aircraft
2. Never fly internationally
3. All to upgrade in 5 years
The letter just says "expect" & based on the first 7 years of the century it is likely a reasonable call. QF don't run or control the US banking system & loan markets
& they didn't know it was about to collapse, in a lot of countries 25% plus of pilots hit the street. Remember age 65 had just come in & management didn't know how
that would impact. At least half of the guys stayed the full extra five years. & some beyond that , went to 737 & became unwell
Massive impact on upgrade
People claiming it was said "international doesn't fit low cost" might have been , probably just management being candid with you. LCC up to that point was primarily domestic
, nobody had really made medium range low cost work. The point is that it was not said that JQ would "never" fly internationally or would "never" exceed 12 airframes
Obviously been repeated so often that many actually believe it
Great Yarns , but that is all they are
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Looking at your past posts Telfer, you know what the worse thing is about you? You take a perverse pleasure in the demise of our Industry. Whilst many thousands of us- you are not included include, because you are obviously not, from your zero knowledge of IR negotiations, zero knowledge of both LH and SH EA's- struggle with to make ends meet, you waltz on here with "gentlemans' handshakes" and singing "kumbayah" as Industrial Strategy. Why don't you take a trip to Byron Bay, tell all and sundry how wonderful you are, I am sure they need another muppet up there.
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It’s extremely had to counter these moves when having a scope clause or taking industrial action to pursue one is illegal.
No mainline pilot has lost his job (CR) as a result of these moves so proving harm is very difficult.
Transmission of business rules set an impossibly high bar to fight a case against.
A court case against an obvious shell company subsidy gets thrown out on jurisdictional grounds.
Even taking legal industrial action of the most minor variety gets shut down by the federal government.
AIPA very much has the cards stacked against it in fighting this erosion of flying. Despite that, after 2 decades of Qantas trying, mainline pilots still hold on to the majority of their hard won conditions. That ought to be more amazing.
No mainline pilot has lost his job (CR) as a result of these moves so proving harm is very difficult.
Transmission of business rules set an impossibly high bar to fight a case against.
A court case against an obvious shell company subsidy gets thrown out on jurisdictional grounds.
Even taking legal industrial action of the most minor variety gets shut down by the federal government.
AIPA very much has the cards stacked against it in fighting this erosion of flying. Despite that, after 2 decades of Qantas trying, mainline pilots still hold on to the majority of their hard won conditions. That ought to be more amazing.
Believe me, I’m not happy about the situation, it infuriates me but I’m realistic about who’s at fault and it ain’t AIPA.
Nunc est bibendum
I’ve stolen the below analysis from Qrewroom. I haven’t checked the numbers but have no reason to doubt their accuracy:
In 2002 the Qantas jet fleet composition was :
B744: 25
B747: 8
B767: 29
B737: 48
A330: 2 ( Mainline Total: 112)
Bae146: 17
B717: 14
Total: 143
Fast forward to 2021 and the Qantas Group jet fleet consists of:
A330: 28
A380: 12
B737: 75
B787: 11 (Mainline Total: 126)
JQ
B787: 11
A321: 26
A320: 53 (+Asia/Japan) 42
NatJet
B717: 20
Network
F100: 17
A320: 6 (+5)
EFA
B737: 5
B767: 1
A321: 1
Total 308.
So in 18 years Mainline has progressed from 112 to 126, and the Qantas Group has moved from 143 to 308.
Now Alliance E190: 3(+12)
Sobering stuff
In 2002 the Qantas jet fleet composition was :
B744: 25
B747: 8
B767: 29
B737: 48
A330: 2 ( Mainline Total: 112)
Bae146: 17
B717: 14
Total: 143
Fast forward to 2021 and the Qantas Group jet fleet consists of:
A330: 28
A380: 12
B737: 75
B787: 11 (Mainline Total: 126)
JQ
B787: 11
A321: 26
A320: 53 (+Asia/Japan) 42
NatJet
B717: 20
Network
F100: 17
A320: 6 (+5)
EFA
B737: 5
B767: 1
A321: 1
Total 308.
So in 18 years Mainline has progressed from 112 to 126, and the Qantas Group has moved from 143 to 308.
Now Alliance E190: 3(+12)
Sobering stuff
Join Date: Feb 2018
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If you want a gig in mainline, on mainline coin, then 21 years ++ to command should be your expectation.
If you want quick promotion, then pick somewhere else.
What will be fascinating to see over the next decade or so is what happens when there is no more growth in the alternative airline?
21 years to command in mainline pays a hell of a lot better than 21 years in Jetstar, QantasLink, Alliance etc. etc.
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Guys come on here & make screeching emotive statements, lose the discussion & play the man
Oh how it upsets be so , as that great crooner Kamal once said "why oh why are people so unkind ?"
All I did was point out that those statements were never made , & that a significant reason for the delay in commands was that the majority of guys stayed well past 60 as soon as they had the opportunity. Can't you see how they stay long time after 60 brigade have had a significant effect on command time
I certainly don't take any perverse pleasure in the economic & other carnage this virus has taken on travel sector, & people employed there. What an odd comment
I was saying at outset that getting 50% of international back within 2 years would be a great achievement, got howled down , think someone called be a narcissist
& guys were still in fantasy land that A350s were coming
Turns out likely we won't even have 5% international back within two years - & it's a tragedy
Not very sophisticated to simply abuse someone because they have a different viewpoint (doesn't phase me) . Lot of guys here seem to have very simplistic thinking about very detailed & complicated problems - "it will all be over by Christmas kind of stuff". Don't think the CEO has helped by big talking numbers re; domestic recovery that are just nonsense
The 21 years to LHS no way that is an average number , typically 14 years , sometimes tad higher sometimes lower, think Perth 737 lhs was ten years
The guys who have really lost are career FO/SOs some of whom occupied these positions decade in decade out. Understand a lot of the Ansett hires from 2001/2002 are still SOs. All of the 380/747 FO/SOs could have upgraded & will pay a price for having a flat earth theory
Think we will be lucky to be at 25% three years in
But if you want to believe the 380s are coming back , 350s will be ordered , all going to go gangbusters - that is your right. I think it's going to take at least 3 years possibly even five or more to get back to 50% of pre-covid international
Oh how it upsets be so , as that great crooner Kamal once said "why oh why are people so unkind ?"
All I did was point out that those statements were never made , & that a significant reason for the delay in commands was that the majority of guys stayed well past 60 as soon as they had the opportunity. Can't you see how they stay long time after 60 brigade have had a significant effect on command time
I certainly don't take any perverse pleasure in the economic & other carnage this virus has taken on travel sector, & people employed there. What an odd comment
I was saying at outset that getting 50% of international back within 2 years would be a great achievement, got howled down , think someone called be a narcissist
& guys were still in fantasy land that A350s were coming
Turns out likely we won't even have 5% international back within two years - & it's a tragedy
Not very sophisticated to simply abuse someone because they have a different viewpoint (doesn't phase me) . Lot of guys here seem to have very simplistic thinking about very detailed & complicated problems - "it will all be over by Christmas kind of stuff". Don't think the CEO has helped by big talking numbers re; domestic recovery that are just nonsense
The 21 years to LHS no way that is an average number , typically 14 years , sometimes tad higher sometimes lower, think Perth 737 lhs was ten years
The guys who have really lost are career FO/SOs some of whom occupied these positions decade in decade out. Understand a lot of the Ansett hires from 2001/2002 are still SOs. All of the 380/747 FO/SOs could have upgraded & will pay a price for having a flat earth theory
Think we will be lucky to be at 25% three years in
But if you want to believe the 380s are coming back , 350s will be ordered , all going to go gangbusters - that is your right. I think it's going to take at least 3 years possibly even five or more to get back to 50% of pre-covid international
Last edited by Telfer86; 5th Feb 2021 at 05:24.
True - lifestyle is a mix of a bunch of factors. Some like the quick command, others the lifestyle of a legacy airline. Not much use for the command if it pays less than you need / want.
What don’t you just say 8 or 10 years...it’s just as easy to say 10. Absolute dribble
It’s extremely had to counter these moves when having a scope clause or taking industrial action to pursue one is illegal.
No mainline pilot has lost his job (CR) as a result of these moves so proving harm is very difficult.
Transmission of business rules set an impossibly high bar to fight a case against.
A court case against an obvious shell company subsidy gets thrown out on jurisdictional grounds.
Even taking legal industrial action of the most minor variety gets shut down by the federal government.
AIPA very much has the cards stacked against it in fighting this erosion of flying. Despite that, after 2 decades of Qantas trying, mainline pilots still hold on to the majority of their hard won conditions. That ought to be more amazing.
No mainline pilot has lost his job (CR) as a result of these moves so proving harm is very difficult.
Transmission of business rules set an impossibly high bar to fight a case against.
A court case against an obvious shell company subsidy gets thrown out on jurisdictional grounds.
Even taking legal industrial action of the most minor variety gets shut down by the federal government.
AIPA very much has the cards stacked against it in fighting this erosion of flying. Despite that, after 2 decades of Qantas trying, mainline pilots still hold on to the majority of their hard won conditions. That ought to be more amazing.
The runs to ASP and DRW were only a small part of ADL base’s work. Most of it was J curve. They’ll be needed in similar numbers when the domestic network is back to normal.
The runs to ASP and DRW were only a small part of ADL base’s work. Most of it was J curve. They’ll be needed in similar numbers when the domestic network is back to normal
To ASP and DRW only. Maybe AYE as well. Because the loads favour a smaller jet. But the runs along the J curve (SYD, MEL, BNE) have always demanded higher passenger loads. From what is being said once it’s back to normal ADL base will be busy enough doing capital city flights alone.