457 visa FOs started at QantasLink
Band a Lot----well that would be a family decision you would have to weigh up and no different to the decisions Australian families make when the Husband/Wife get a jobs in CX, EY, QR, KA, EK or NH.
Oh and is Heart Surgeon on the 457 list? Would the foreign qualifications for that even be recognized in Australia? There must be enough qualified Australians to fill the positions anyway.
Nope I'm sorry but you just can't use that excuse, if your wife can get a nice high paid job in Australia great, but that shouldn't give you the right to come here and disadvantage our young struggling Pilots out of a good Job.
Maybe after a couple of years in Australia you and the family might then get a residency visa to enable you to stay permanently and work? Then no problems.
Life's tough, make your choice.
Oh and is Heart Surgeon on the 457 list? Would the foreign qualifications for that even be recognized in Australia? There must be enough qualified Australians to fill the positions anyway.
Nope I'm sorry but you just can't use that excuse, if your wife can get a nice high paid job in Australia great, but that shouldn't give you the right to come here and disadvantage our young struggling Pilots out of a good Job.
Maybe after a couple of years in Australia you and the family might then get a residency visa to enable you to stay permanently and work? Then no problems.
Life's tough, make your choice.
Last edited by ACMS; 18th Sep 2016 at 06:20.
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Crickey some very self-centred interests here. Australia is built on immigration it requires immigration and often they get PR but never take up citizenship.
In some counties an expat partner gets work rights others not. Some need to offer work rights and other benefits like tax others not.
The decision on what is best for country will benefit some sectors and not others in the bigger picture the object is get the best outcome for country not a very small sub group of the country.
Now we from op we only have to go on 2 South Africans, no conformation they are 457 holders (Primary or Secondary) or maybe they are married to Australian citizens we don't know.
I do know I am a bit disappointed in self-centred interest from pilots that have about zero understanding of immigration and work rights laws of Australia, I assume with same position that my adopted kids should be kicked out of Private Education as soon as a Australian citizen wants a place at that school as the class is full - they have been here 2 years and 3-4 years until citizenship is possible.
I have no idea what is on the list, it was used as an example.
In some counties an expat partner gets work rights others not. Some need to offer work rights and other benefits like tax others not.
The decision on what is best for country will benefit some sectors and not others in the bigger picture the object is get the best outcome for country not a very small sub group of the country.
Now we from op we only have to go on 2 South Africans, no conformation they are 457 holders (Primary or Secondary) or maybe they are married to Australian citizens we don't know.
I do know I am a bit disappointed in self-centred interest from pilots that have about zero understanding of immigration and work rights laws of Australia, I assume with same position that my adopted kids should be kicked out of Private Education as soon as a Australian citizen wants a place at that school as the class is full - they have been here 2 years and 3-4 years until citizenship is possible.
I have no idea what is on the list, it was used as an example.
QLink went to SA specifically to recruit, these are not just random pilots who happen to be from SA. This is also not the first time they have been over there to recruit.
I certainly get that immigration to fill certain roles is a good thing, but roles at QLink can be filled by local pilots without needing to go overseas to find them.
I certainly get that immigration to fill certain roles is a good thing, but roles at QLink can be filled by local pilots without needing to go overseas to find them.
Are there actually suitably qualified pilots who want to work for QLink? I was contacted out of the blue by QLink and asked if I would be interested in flying a Dash 8. Given that I have had no contact with them before at all, and that they only found me by trawling through LinkedIn profiles, I would think they are genuinely struggling to get people.
Perhaps QLink's thinking is that if these guys forego these other opportunities to come to Australia to work for Qlink, then they most probably will be long term stayers at the Link and will get years out of their service than someone from Aus GA who will use Qlink as a stepping stone to CX or EK.
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Ok,
Time for a little bit of proof, not I heard.
"QLink went to SA specifically to recruit"
Certainly no fact here other than what I posted about IMMI stuff.
Love to see fact and figures than un-employable pilots crying. (Some are exactly that)
Time for a little bit of proof, not I heard.
"QLink went to SA specifically to recruit"
Certainly no fact here other than what I posted about IMMI stuff.
Love to see fact and figures than un-employable pilots crying. (Some are exactly that)
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Qlink bond - Successful Trainee applicants will be required to enter a Deed of Agreement with QantasLink in relation to the costs of the Trainee Program and will be bonded to the Company for a period of four years.
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This from another forum as to why a bit of depth maybe good for all. (it is copy paste)
** It is an interesting topic to debate,but the answer really is that there are good pilots from most countries just asthere as bad pilots from most countries. At my present company there are pilotsfrom 70 different countries and I train many of them so I do see a good crosssection of pilots.
Pilots from the USA ( I am one ) tend to have better systems knowledge ofaircraft and better handling skills. They can, however, be very sloppyprocedurally and less careful in normal operations.
Pilots from Australia and New Zealand are very good procedurally and good athandling with excellent theoretical knowledge, but can be too uptight in thecockpit and too procedural during non-normal or emergency situations. This canresult in "out thinking " themselves to the point that they are slowto get the airplane on the ground or brief you to death as they fly right intoa mountain.
Pilots from the UK and South Africa are a good compromise between the abovetwo. The British pilots I fly with are great guys, very professional yetrelaxed.
Contrary to some of the above comments, UAE pilots ( and pilots from the MiddleEast in general ) are quite competent. The areas they could improve on arelateral thinking and handling.
Pilots from Asia are very good procedurally and know the manuals thoroughly,but again handling is often weak and they tend to underperform in an emergency
** While I have not been as directly involved with training multi cultures asyou have, my experience in working with pilots from around the world on variousprojects leads me to similar conclusions. I am a bit surprsed that the Kiwi andOz pilots are not higher, as their culture has such low"power-distance" standards, that I would think they would not behesitant to do what is necessary to get on the ground.
I think a real advantage that the U.K. pilots have is, beyond their culture,their training at a basic level is so far superior to ours. I have sat in onprivate pilot oral exams by U.K. examiners, and I was pretty impressed. Theyreally get a very solid foundation, and do not seem to be fed so many of themyths that U.S. general aviation is full of, when it comes to aerodynamic theory,etc., etc.
** I agree the Ozmates and Kiwis and a bit of a conundrum. So relaxed and laidback on the ground, yet so uptight at work. Granted that is a widegeneralization and there are certainly exceptions to the rule. Yet it can beseen in other aspects of Australian life ( ever gone through customs searchesthere ? ). It's not the " put another shrimp on the barbie " countrythat so many think it is.
I prefer flying with the Brits far more than the Aussies. Make a little mistakewith aAn Aussie sitting next to you and it's, " Mate, that isn't how thebook says to do it. We might have to write a report about that ". Thatcreates an air of tension in the flight deck. While flying with a Brit it wouldgo more like, " ha ha, I did that myself last week, your buying the firstround at the pub now ". Far better CRM environment and far more relaxedwork atmosphere.AA
** It is an interesting topic to debate,but the answer really is that there are good pilots from most countries just asthere as bad pilots from most countries. At my present company there are pilotsfrom 70 different countries and I train many of them so I do see a good crosssection of pilots.
Pilots from the USA ( I am one ) tend to have better systems knowledge ofaircraft and better handling skills. They can, however, be very sloppyprocedurally and less careful in normal operations.
Pilots from Australia and New Zealand are very good procedurally and good athandling with excellent theoretical knowledge, but can be too uptight in thecockpit and too procedural during non-normal or emergency situations. This canresult in "out thinking " themselves to the point that they are slowto get the airplane on the ground or brief you to death as they fly right intoa mountain.
Pilots from the UK and South Africa are a good compromise between the abovetwo. The British pilots I fly with are great guys, very professional yetrelaxed.
Contrary to some of the above comments, UAE pilots ( and pilots from the MiddleEast in general ) are quite competent. The areas they could improve on arelateral thinking and handling.
Pilots from Asia are very good procedurally and know the manuals thoroughly,but again handling is often weak and they tend to underperform in an emergency
** While I have not been as directly involved with training multi cultures asyou have, my experience in working with pilots from around the world on variousprojects leads me to similar conclusions. I am a bit surprsed that the Kiwi andOz pilots are not higher, as their culture has such low"power-distance" standards, that I would think they would not behesitant to do what is necessary to get on the ground.
I think a real advantage that the U.K. pilots have is, beyond their culture,their training at a basic level is so far superior to ours. I have sat in onprivate pilot oral exams by U.K. examiners, and I was pretty impressed. Theyreally get a very solid foundation, and do not seem to be fed so many of themyths that U.S. general aviation is full of, when it comes to aerodynamic theory,etc., etc.
** I agree the Ozmates and Kiwis and a bit of a conundrum. So relaxed and laidback on the ground, yet so uptight at work. Granted that is a widegeneralization and there are certainly exceptions to the rule. Yet it can beseen in other aspects of Australian life ( ever gone through customs searchesthere ? ). It's not the " put another shrimp on the barbie " countrythat so many think it is.
I prefer flying with the Brits far more than the Aussies. Make a little mistakewith aAn Aussie sitting next to you and it's, " Mate, that isn't how thebook says to do it. We might have to write a report about that ". Thatcreates an air of tension in the flight deck. While flying with a Brit it wouldgo more like, " ha ha, I did that myself last week, your buying the firstround at the pub now ". Far better CRM environment and far more relaxedwork atmosphere.AA
This has nothing to do with the relative abilities of different nationalities.
Stop the superfluous crap.
It's nothing new for Nations to protect their own people with regards to work in their country, as they should.
This comes down to facts about Australian Pilot availability to join QLink in Australia to fly a Dash8 as an FO. It has nothing to do with a International Willy waving contest.
Stop the superfluous crap.
It's nothing new for Nations to protect their own people with regards to work in their country, as they should.
This comes down to facts about Australian Pilot availability to join QLink in Australia to fly a Dash8 as an FO. It has nothing to do with a International Willy waving contest.
Band a lot, very interesting précis of the various nationalities.
As an Aussie I unfortunately have to agree with your assessment.
I think this is indicative of our whole society not just the pilot group. Drive 1km/h over the speed limit and you are killing baby seals. Have a cold and flu tablet before you go to work and you run the risk of being zapped by casa random drug testing.
You can't go into a kids playground if you are a male as you are a pedo, and kids can't go into a playground unless they are wrapped in a sumo suit to protect them from skinning a knee or breaking a nail.
Pilots can't go through security with a nail clipper as they may hold it to their own throats and "take control" of the aircraft - reminds me of the scene from blazing saddles "drop it or the pilot gets it!" As he holds a nail clipper to his own throat.
We (in this country) have become so scared of breaking the rules that we have effectively trained lateral thinking out of everyone, airline crews in particular. A generality I know but apt nonetheless.
The country's screwed as is the airline industry and many other industries.
Personally I blame the lawyers.
It sounds like I have a big downer on the country, but it is home and I need to live with it as it is as I can't change it
As an Aussie I unfortunately have to agree with your assessment.
I think this is indicative of our whole society not just the pilot group. Drive 1km/h over the speed limit and you are killing baby seals. Have a cold and flu tablet before you go to work and you run the risk of being zapped by casa random drug testing.
You can't go into a kids playground if you are a male as you are a pedo, and kids can't go into a playground unless they are wrapped in a sumo suit to protect them from skinning a knee or breaking a nail.
Pilots can't go through security with a nail clipper as they may hold it to their own throats and "take control" of the aircraft - reminds me of the scene from blazing saddles "drop it or the pilot gets it!" As he holds a nail clipper to his own throat.
We (in this country) have become so scared of breaking the rules that we have effectively trained lateral thinking out of everyone, airline crews in particular. A generality I know but apt nonetheless.
The country's screwed as is the airline industry and many other industries.
Personally I blame the lawyers.
It sounds like I have a big downer on the country, but it is home and I need to live with it as it is as I can't change it
All very nice and possibly true sentiments but they are not relevant to the thread topic.
Let me ask you this, would you like your Kids to be able to get a flying job in an Australian Airline ahead of someone from another Country?
Let me ask you this, would you like your Kids to be able to get a flying job in an Australian Airline ahead of someone from another Country?
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"Would you like your Kids to be able to get a flying job in an Australian Airline ahead of someone from another Country?"
I have some kids from Africa, one born here and 2 from Ukraine, my wife currently not working is very well educated and at uni here in AU all my kids in private school.
I plan and hope that my kids get a job on merit, in any country they can legally work.
My comments started on topic of 457 visa and have stayed mostly to that, not many have posted much here other than pure Australian Pilots Protection Environment Needed.
Oh yes I am born bread Australian citizen.
I have some kids from Africa, one born here and 2 from Ukraine, my wife currently not working is very well educated and at uni here in AU all my kids in private school.
I plan and hope that my kids get a job on merit, in any country they can legally work.
My comments started on topic of 457 visa and have stayed mostly to that, not many have posted much here other than pure Australian Pilots Protection Environment Needed.
Oh yes I am born bread Australian citizen.
Yes fantastic, they have residency and a right to live and work in Australia I assume, that would be their earned right.
Not everyone in Australia aspires to work overseas and many many cannot anyway simply because they are NOT allowed to.
We should look after our own Citizens first no matter what their chosen profession, that's not racism or discrimination in any form at all. If we legitimately cannot fill those positions then yes we can look overseas.
It's not a hard concept to grasp surely, other countries do just that.
I find it very hard to believe there are no suitable Australian Pilots around that would be quite competent flying for QLink, I know a lot of Pilots that would love the job.
Not everyone in Australia aspires to work overseas and many many cannot anyway simply because they are NOT allowed to.
We should look after our own Citizens first no matter what their chosen profession, that's not racism or discrimination in any form at all. If we legitimately cannot fill those positions then yes we can look overseas.
It's not a hard concept to grasp surely, other countries do just that.
I find it very hard to believe there are no suitable Australian Pilots around that would be quite competent flying for QLink, I know a lot of Pilots that would love the job.
Last edited by ACMS; 18th Sep 2016 at 10:28.
"Time for a little bit of proof, not I heard."
And how exactly should I go about that? Provide receipts?
How about I know who they sent, and I flew with some of the guys they recruited from the first time they did it.
And how exactly should I go about that? Provide receipts?
How about I know who they sent, and I flew with some of the guys they recruited from the first time they did it.
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A secondary 457 visa holder has same rights ACMS, you just can not concept that - sadly.
Look after a country, not a big headed sub sector of industry - that could if required be filled 100% with 457 visa holders in about 6 months if required.
Possibly that way due stubbornness of the 80's of pilots and their special rights above all others back then as a back up for governments now.
Look after a country, not a big headed sub sector of industry - that could if required be filled 100% with 457 visa holders in about 6 months if required.
Possibly that way due stubbornness of the 80's of pilots and their special rights above all others back then as a back up for governments now.
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Honestly hear say, a few emails or an ad is required.
"Time for a little bit of proof, not I heard."
And how exactly should I go about that? Provide receipts?
How about I know who they sent, and I flew with some of the guys they recruited from the first time they did it.
"Time for a little bit of proof, not I heard."
And how exactly should I go about that? Provide receipts?
How about I know who they sent, and I flew with some of the guys they recruited from the first time they did it.
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What's the issue, foreigners have been in ever since the 80's and there hasn't been any worries about displacing Australian nationals.
I don't think the public could care less and nor would you unless you lost your job.Get over it.
I don't think the public could care less and nor would you unless you lost your job.Get over it.