Cobham sign 10 year extension for B717 Operation
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: perth australia
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A united pilot group my arse. You guys are so intent climbing over each other that there has never been a united group. Face facts. You guys would sell yer mums for a spot on a good cushy seat.
What a laugh that pilots are united.. Haha
What a laugh that pilots are united.. Haha
One difference this time around for the EBA negotiations.
The usual MO from employers is negotiate the EBA on the scaremongering basis that if "you pilots (cabin crew, engineers etc)" ask for too much and do not budge on your demands then we will not win the contract.
Well guess what, you have already bid and won the contract. What you promised the client is between the company and the client. Any increase to employees conditions would have been anticipated and anything over and above that comes out of the contract margin for (in this case) Cobham.
I think you guys are in a strong bargaining position. Waiting for the " we are just lucky to have jobs brigade" to roll over and have their belly scratched.
You are worth what you negotiate for. Do what the comapnies usually do, get a professional industrial negotiator in to do the job.
Good luck.
The usual MO from employers is negotiate the EBA on the scaremongering basis that if "you pilots (cabin crew, engineers etc)" ask for too much and do not budge on your demands then we will not win the contract.
Well guess what, you have already bid and won the contract. What you promised the client is between the company and the client. Any increase to employees conditions would have been anticipated and anything over and above that comes out of the contract margin for (in this case) Cobham.
I think you guys are in a strong bargaining position. Waiting for the " we are just lucky to have jobs brigade" to roll over and have their belly scratched.
You are worth what you negotiate for. Do what the comapnies usually do, get a professional industrial negotiator in to do the job.
Good luck.
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"the company did see the 'united' nature of such and the 'action' was not then needed. "
Absolute Rubbish.....
As I remember Qantas told Cobham that any industrial action would result in the 717 fleet being grounded and all pilots not being payed.. That resulted in a complete cave in by the "United pilot group".
The pilots have absolutely no pulling power whatsoever in the up coming EBA and not only does the company know that , but the few smart pilots know that to.
Absolute Rubbish.....
As I remember Qantas told Cobham that any industrial action would result in the 717 fleet being grounded and all pilots not being payed.. That resulted in a complete cave in by the "United pilot group".
The pilots have absolutely no pulling power whatsoever in the up coming EBA and not only does the company know that , but the few smart pilots know that to.
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I might add that my guess is that the new contract has many, many clauses..including that any industrial action will result in a nil and void contract.
That being a very possible case, then what will happen if that is passed onto the Pilot group.
Cave in would be my guess.
That being a very possible case, then what will happen if that is passed onto the Pilot group.
Cave in would be my guess.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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There are supposed to be " bold pilots and old pilots, but no bold and old pilots."
But yet, there are a lot of dumb pilots. Especially at Cobham...
You get a 10 year contract that essentially gives you a fairly secure job in a cushy warm seat, and yet only dumb Cobham pilots can somehow try and make that into a fight... Go figure that .
But yet, there are a lot of dumb pilots. Especially at Cobham...
You get a 10 year contract that essentially gives you a fairly secure job in a cushy warm seat, and yet only dumb Cobham pilots can somehow try and make that into a fight... Go figure that .
including that any industrial action will result in a nil (sic) and void contract.
I do however agree with your statement about certain pilots willing to climb over others, but they represent a very small minority and news of failure to deliver on promises made lately will no doubt give prospective ladder climbers pause for thought.
Bella your animosity towards pilots is your prerogative, but name calling really is beneath you sir don't you think.
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Blitzs
The anamosity to pilots on this forum from me comes from the fact that 6 engineers in Perth and 20 in Total around the network have to lose their jobs as part of the "engineering on demand" model that Qantas have demanded as part of this 10 year deal...and yet we still as a group believe that saving 600 jobs at Cobham is worth that sacrifice...,
The difference with the supposed "United pilot " group is you as a group are only thinking of your precious soles and not about the many many others, be at admin staff or FAs or whoever that rely on this contract.
The anamosity to pilots on this forum from me comes from the fact that 6 engineers in Perth and 20 in Total around the network have to lose their jobs as part of the "engineering on demand" model that Qantas have demanded as part of this 10 year deal...and yet we still as a group believe that saving 600 jobs at Cobham is worth that sacrifice...,
The difference with the supposed "United pilot " group is you as a group are only thinking of your precious soles and not about the many many others, be at admin staff or FAs or whoever that rely on this contract.
Jobs are like oxygen masks, you make sure yours is secure before helping others. Nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately it does mean that when jobs are on the line there are conflicting priorities.
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Aero
I can fully understand that everyone wants to protect their own job. And that's the thing that bugs me. We/ us in engineering were as happy as Larry when the news came in because 90% of engineering jobs were confirmed as safe.,ie 6 engineers unfortunately had to go.
Take a snap shot at the pilot senerio and it look likes there are no jobs on the line but maybe a drop in conditions.
The engineers would have taken that to save the 6 jobs
That's the difference between an engineer and a pilot.....
I can fully understand that everyone wants to protect their own job. And that's the thing that bugs me. We/ us in engineering were as happy as Larry when the news came in because 90% of engineering jobs were confirmed as safe.,ie 6 engineers unfortunately had to go.
Take a snap shot at the pilot senerio and it look likes there are no jobs on the line but maybe a drop in conditions.
The engineers would have taken that to save the 6 jobs
That's the difference between an engineer and a pilot.....
bella,
Serious question, if all the Engineers were willing to take a paycut to save 6, was there not an avenue to explore/discuss this with the company?
Serious question, if all the Engineers were willing to take a paycut to save 6, was there not an avenue to explore/discuss this with the company?
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Get on the phone B3! Tell old mate you'll renegotiate on behalf of all the engineers, everyone to take a pay and condition cut! I'm sure you'll be praised for your efforts, you might even get a promotion! It could have just as easily been pilots in the firing line. I think your anger toward pilots is misdirected. I've worked in engineering departments before and I know many that think only about themselves as well. As for pilot conditions, I'm pretty sure they can't go much lower!
Can someone confirm my maths here please...
The ten year contract is worth $1.2 billion.
So each year is worth $120 million.
Operating twenty aircraft means each one costs $6 million per annum.
Presumably QF pay fuel and spares on top?
The ten year contract is worth $1.2 billion.
So each year is worth $120 million.
Operating twenty aircraft means each one costs $6 million per annum.
Presumably QF pay fuel and spares on top?
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So been a few weeks to sink in.....no comment from QF pilots or thier Union?
Don't they care about what's happening with their flying being contracted out?
Been reduced into submission?
Don't they care about what's happening with their flying being contracted out?
Been reduced into submission?
