Reported Jetstar Tailstike at YMML
As an observer from afar i'm amazed at the penalty culture that seems to exist in Aus aviation.
As a training Capt., in my airline if this simple incident occurred,( especially with a new crew member) first, check the pilots training record.
Remedial Sim if required and then a few handling sectors under supervision.
A simple handling error, and considering the number of sectors flown by Jetstar not a problem.
Unless of course the bash the LoCo, denigrate the pilots culture that also seems to exist from QF pilots etc.
In UK for example Ryanair/EasyJet crews are held to the same safety/training standards as the Majors, BA/Virgin etc. and not held as some sort of low life!!
As a training Capt., in my airline if this simple incident occurred,( especially with a new crew member) first, check the pilots training record.
Remedial Sim if required and then a few handling sectors under supervision.
A simple handling error, and considering the number of sectors flown by Jetstar not a problem.
Unless of course the bash the LoCo, denigrate the pilots culture that also seems to exist from QF pilots etc.
In UK for example Ryanair/EasyJet crews are held to the same safety/training standards as the Majors, BA/Virgin etc. and not held as some sort of low life!!
Plane talking
I agree
I used to enjoy reading Ben Sandilands, more recently feeling pretty unimpressed.
Yes it's good to have independent reporting from people who care about our industry, however the tendency towards the dramatic over statements 'appalling' etc etc. does not help build an environment where we support each other towards improvement in the industry.
Yes it's appropriate to investigate incidents big and small. Yes it's appropriate to compel improvements where necessary. Yes it's necessary to provide training if required. Yes it's appropriate to hold organisations or individuals accountable if there is blatant incompetence or violations.
No it's not useful or constructive to tee off at people or organisations in an unconstructive way and without all the facts. This kind of reporting has a negative affect on the safety culture of our industry.
Rant over.
I used to enjoy reading Ben Sandilands, more recently feeling pretty unimpressed.
Yes it's good to have independent reporting from people who care about our industry, however the tendency towards the dramatic over statements 'appalling' etc etc. does not help build an environment where we support each other towards improvement in the industry.
Yes it's appropriate to investigate incidents big and small. Yes it's appropriate to compel improvements where necessary. Yes it's necessary to provide training if required. Yes it's appropriate to hold organisations or individuals accountable if there is blatant incompetence or violations.
No it's not useful or constructive to tee off at people or organisations in an unconstructive way and without all the facts. This kind of reporting has a negative affect on the safety culture of our industry.
Rant over.
Someone had a tail strike in gusty conditions while new to the aircraft ( apparently).
If this was the third one in a year then sure, get excited, start asking what the regulator is doing, but one? Basically the regulator needs to be assured that the airline is taking advantage of any learning opportunities and is ensuring that training and re training is up to scratch. That's it. No different to when QF dragged a tail a while back and changed their procedures as a result.
If this was the third one in a year then sure, get excited, start asking what the regulator is doing, but one? Basically the regulator needs to be assured that the airline is taking advantage of any learning opportunities and is ensuring that training and re training is up to scratch. That's it. No different to when QF dragged a tail a while back and changed their procedures as a result.
Interested to know what exactly happened, A320’s are not easy to tail strike. The wind was a bit how’s your father but not really that bad.
It sounds like a V speed calculation error or GW error made by the crew??? Such an oversight is not a single crewmembers fault.
In which case simple “remedial sim” and “handling sectors” will probably not solve the problem.
It sounds like a V speed calculation error or GW error made by the crew??? Such an oversight is not a single crewmembers fault.
In which case simple “remedial sim” and “handling sectors” will probably not solve the problem.
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I suggest some of you read the NTSB report regarding USAirways Flight 1702.Tail strikes across the board are not as uncommon as you think,not hard to do a google search and take your pick.But this accident you just cannot makeup,rejecting the takeoff at approx 50ft takes the cake.This accident has something for everyone.
Some tail strikes are justifiable!! Really?.Just had had a mate of mine go through one,on very short Final they get a "wind shear" alert,proceed with the windshear go-around profile,in full go around mode,Toga,pitch etc and still get the tail strike,those with a clue will see how this happens.Anytime I hear of a tail strike,rather than jump to conclusion,I rather dig deeper and find the cause(s)
Some tail strikes are justifiable!! Really?.Just had had a mate of mine go through one,on very short Final they get a "wind shear" alert,proceed with the windshear go-around profile,in full go around mode,Toga,pitch etc and still get the tail strike,those with a clue will see how this happens.Anytime I hear of a tail strike,rather than jump to conclusion,I rather dig deeper and find the cause(s)
Pakeha boy, for precisely that reason in a baulked landing, you use TOGA ten. You could strike the tail if you don't.
Thence once the aircraft is climbing safely, pitch to the flight director and retract the wheels.
Thence once the aircraft is climbing safely, pitch to the flight director and retract the wheels.
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For those that want to mouth off about how "ill informed" Sandilands is, then state your facts where this is so.
Not one thing he states is incorrect about the vial orange operation and CASA's/ATSB lack of action. Otherwise the parasites would have him bent over the fence outside a Court house.
In fact, why don't we start another thread and those that overwork there at the orange cancer can state the FACTS of what occurs on a daily basis. Then we would all see whether Sandilands "has all the facts and whether he is bias or not". Now wouldn't that be an interesting read.
Yes my word, a very interesting read indeed.
Not one thing he states is incorrect about the vial orange operation and CASA's/ATSB lack of action. Otherwise the parasites would have him bent over the fence outside a Court house.
In fact, why don't we start another thread and those that overwork there at the orange cancer can state the FACTS of what occurs on a daily basis. Then we would all see whether Sandilands "has all the facts and whether he is bias or not". Now wouldn't that be an interesting read.
Yes my word, a very interesting read indeed.
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... And so Green Goblin,your point is?
He got a wind-shear alert ,performed the windshear procedure,and still got a tail strike,enlighten me
Like you I'm sure,we've practiced these "escape " maneuvers many times,I know and understand the procedures,never had a actual.Im glad "your" procedure is the same as mine,thanks for that
He got a wind-shear alert ,performed the windshear procedure,and still got a tail strike,enlighten me
Like you I'm sure,we've practiced these "escape " maneuvers many times,I know and understand the procedures,never had a actual.Im glad "your" procedure is the same as mine,thanks for that
Last edited by Pakehaboy; 15th May 2016 at 03:28.
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Madame Bandit,
Do you even work at Jetstar? How can you make these assertions about day to day operations? You are sounding as sensationalist as Ben Sandilands has become. I guess that's how you've got to get attention these days with so many journalists out there.
The Qantas tail strike incident QF842 (Avherald : Report: Qantas B738 at Sydney on Aug 1st 2014, data input errors result in tail scrape ) could be quite similar, except that they continued on to DRW, but I don't seem to remember Ben Sandilands getting all excited about that one.
The Qantas loading incident A330 VH-QPJ (ATSB : https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2015-088/ ) lead to the aircraft taking off approx 2000kg over MTOW, but again Ben Sanidalnds didn't get too excited.
I'm not having a go at Qantas, I think it's an excellent airline, but all airlines get their share of incidents. Having journalists stir their readers into a frenzy about certain airlines is irresponsible. Shouldn't they just report the facts without all the hype.
By the way MB, I think you meant "vile" not "vial", & "biased" not "bias".
Do you even work at Jetstar? How can you make these assertions about day to day operations? You are sounding as sensationalist as Ben Sandilands has become. I guess that's how you've got to get attention these days with so many journalists out there.
The Qantas tail strike incident QF842 (Avherald : Report: Qantas B738 at Sydney on Aug 1st 2014, data input errors result in tail scrape ) could be quite similar, except that they continued on to DRW, but I don't seem to remember Ben Sandilands getting all excited about that one.
The Qantas loading incident A330 VH-QPJ (ATSB : https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2015-088/ ) lead to the aircraft taking off approx 2000kg over MTOW, but again Ben Sanidalnds didn't get too excited.
I'm not having a go at Qantas, I think it's an excellent airline, but all airlines get their share of incidents. Having journalists stir their readers into a frenzy about certain airlines is irresponsible. Shouldn't they just report the facts without all the hype.
By the way MB, I think you meant "vile" not "vial", & "biased" not "bias".
the gutless safety regulator that conducted a grandiose grounding of Singapore owned Tiger Airways in 2011 after it infringed safe minimum altitude requirements over the Leopold estate near Geelong during a night time go-around at Avalon Airport.
unwillingness to date of the supposed safety regulator CASA to ground or restrict its flights.
As I said before MB Ben Sandilands needs to better understand the reason for the Tiger grounding before he mouths off. You seem to have the same hysterical bias against Jetstar that Sandilands does.
The Qantas guys live for paying out on Jetstar.
Ultimately there's probably more experience and more world exposure in the Jetstar training department than the Qantas one.
Qantas is a bit like an aero club. They only know the Qantas way.
The Jetstar training captains are ex just about every operator. Particularly the Ansett guys who had to make a buck before coming home.
Ultimately there's probably more experience and more world exposure in the Jetstar training department than the Qantas one.
Qantas is a bit like an aero club. They only know the Qantas way.
The Jetstar training captains are ex just about every operator. Particularly the Ansett guys who had to make a buck before coming home.
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bdcr
The photos of tech logs, MEL's, crewing schedules, screen shots of ....well....let's just say "rostering" practices etc etc etc that is sent to me on a weekly basis is frightening enough. The concerns expressed during skype conversations makes for many a hair stand on end for hours.
Not to mention the upheaval in flight ops which continues to this very day. And yet, it just keeps on tickin. What a mighty regulator.
Thanks for the spell correction sweetie. It was typed shortly after I was sent stuff on the recent Ballina "incident". Scary read. Oh that's right, sssshhhh mum's the word.
The photos of tech logs, MEL's, crewing schedules, screen shots of ....well....let's just say "rostering" practices etc etc etc that is sent to me on a weekly basis is frightening enough. The concerns expressed during skype conversations makes for many a hair stand on end for hours.
Not to mention the upheaval in flight ops which continues to this very day. And yet, it just keeps on tickin. What a mighty regulator.
Thanks for the spell correction sweetie. It was typed shortly after I was sent stuff on the recent Ballina "incident". Scary read. Oh that's right, sssshhhh mum's the word.