Jetstar Aiming for 50% Gender Spilt in Interview Candidates
Join Date: Mar 2005
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If you click on the SMH link on the article in the opening post, then it becomes apparent that either a cash strapped Fairfax media has found a lot of money for a production company or that more likely this piece is a paid advertorial, which means that it was signed off by Jetstar management. Which brings me to the following points.
Firstly, the article specifically mentions quotas wrt increasing female participation and;
Secondly, that Jetstar are happy to exploit their female staff for advertising.
It's also interesting (well no it's not but I couldn't be bothered with a segue) that "orange future" is a handle made up entirely to use obfuscation to keep up banter in order to keep this thread at the top of the page. (As we've seen, when no one responds to orange future, then they respond to themselves in order to goad people into a response). We know that orange isn't a Pilot and they have very little knowledge of the industry. Make up your own minds about orange future's motivation here, but the good news is that you can kill off orange future by not responding to someone who's trying to keep an advertorial alive.
Firstly, the article specifically mentions quotas wrt increasing female participation and;
Secondly, that Jetstar are happy to exploit their female staff for advertising.
It's also interesting (well no it's not but I couldn't be bothered with a segue) that "orange future" is a handle made up entirely to use obfuscation to keep up banter in order to keep this thread at the top of the page. (As we've seen, when no one responds to orange future, then they respond to themselves in order to goad people into a response). We know that orange isn't a Pilot and they have very little knowledge of the industry. Make up your own minds about orange future's motivation here, but the good news is that you can kill off orange future by not responding to someone who's trying to keep an advertorial alive.
Das Uber,
Kinda pointless going around in circles with your argument based largely on paranoia and siege mentality.
Best of luck, let me know if you find any reds under the bed.
Kinda pointless going around in circles with your argument based largely on paranoia and siege mentality.
Best of luck, let me know if you find any reds under the bed.
I've posted evidence, I've invited you to do the same. If you're unable, that's on you. Nobody here is 'out to get you', but if you think everyone here is simply going to 'take your word for it' without a shred of supporting evidence, you're in the wrong forum.
Good bye.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I think this whole thread and its representative tension just reaffirms one thing; a dopey short term corporate trendy "philosophy" executed with traditional JQ hopelessness. It will fail and cause more damage than gain along the way.
“Firstly, the article specifically mentions quotas wrt increasing female participation”
You are referring to:
"Incentives and quotas have helped reverse this situation,"
Yes, in the past, they have, although they have not been used in the airline industry in Australia to modify the gender makeup of cockpits. Can you name an airline where quotas were used to ensure more women were employed as pilots? More importantly, the article DOES NOT suggest that JQ are planning on introducing them.
You folk really are threatened by alternative points of view. Becoming aggressive simply highlights the lack of conviction you have in your arguments.
Lets come back to this debate in a year or so or maybe 3 and see how many female pilots JQ have fast tracked into the cockpit and how many men were sidelined based solely on gender.
You are referring to:
"Incentives and quotas have helped reverse this situation,"
Yes, in the past, they have, although they have not been used in the airline industry in Australia to modify the gender makeup of cockpits. Can you name an airline where quotas were used to ensure more women were employed as pilots? More importantly, the article DOES NOT suggest that JQ are planning on introducing them.
You folk really are threatened by alternative points of view. Becoming aggressive simply highlights the lack of conviction you have in your arguments.
Lets come back to this debate in a year or so or maybe 3 and see how many female pilots JQ have fast tracked into the cockpit and how many men were sidelined based solely on gender.
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Quote..."You folk really are threatened by alternative points of view. Becoming aggressive simply highlights the lack of conviction you have in your arguments."
Not at all,you just seem to have a view that most don't agree with,how is that" being threatened",Pot calling the kettle black I think
Not at all,you just seem to have a view that most don't agree with,how is that" being threatened",Pot calling the kettle black I think
".....you just seem to have a view that most don't agree with...."
But many people think the same as you? Based upon a tiny snapshot of the wider population from this thread?
Can you say group think?
But many people think the same as you? Based upon a tiny snapshot of the wider population from this thread?
Can you say group think?
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I would lament the many comments (to you)made in this thread,....no one is "threatened" as you would like to put it.Im just trying to understand the picture here,and see both sides,no group thinking at all.You seem "testy" when presented with what I see as plausible retorts to yr view and points.
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Revealed: the $65,000 gender pay gap at the top of politics and public service
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And this has what to do with aviation exactly?
Every response (including mine), keeps the meme in people mind in an attempt to persuade and recruit support. Controversy is even better, as it keeps the thread bubbling to the top. Each time you visit the forum, there's the thread at the top and in your field of view. Each and every response, including this one, suits their purposes & agenda. I'm reluctant to post knowing this, and I have only done it to hopefully give some background to the process of forum hijacking the Orange Future has clearly demonstrated. I've only posted it because it has been forced back to the top by OF.
Orange Future will no doubt deny and rebutt this, even argue with itself if required in an effort to keep a zombie thread alive. Responses play right into their hands.
So its over a year since our last discussion.
Im interested to know how many female pilots have been awarded cockpit jobs with Jetstar following the quota system they apparently were going to introduce?
Im interested to know how many female pilots have been awarded cockpit jobs with Jetstar following the quota system they apparently were going to introduce?
Join Date: Jun 2006
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[rant]
I would suggest that a certain predictable percentage of women will be deemed suitable it probably won't be the same percentage as suitable men - it might be more, might be less.
It won't be 50%.
I have hired 4 women and 6 men in the last 3 years, higher proportion of women hired than in the general pilot population. The women I have hired have been the best candidate on the day and I have never had cause to regret the decision or change my mind about the women I have hired.
...I have had some regrets about a small proportion of the males hired and let one of them go.
Without exception, the women I have hired have worked harder and been unrelentingly professional and dilligent compared to the blokes. They have been more loyal (averaging more than 2 years each) and less inclined to bugger off at the first whiff of something better.
They have all moved on with our blessings and the gratitude of our family business for working so hard for us.
Those blokes sitting back and whinging that the chicks are "taking all the jobs" or "getting all the promotions" probably need to worry less about what's between everyone's legs, and more about their own work ethic and professionalism.
[/rant]
I would suggest that a certain predictable percentage of women will be deemed suitable it probably won't be the same percentage as suitable men - it might be more, might be less.
It won't be 50%.
I have hired 4 women and 6 men in the last 3 years, higher proportion of women hired than in the general pilot population. The women I have hired have been the best candidate on the day and I have never had cause to regret the decision or change my mind about the women I have hired.
...I have had some regrets about a small proportion of the males hired and let one of them go.
Without exception, the women I have hired have worked harder and been unrelentingly professional and dilligent compared to the blokes. They have been more loyal (averaging more than 2 years each) and less inclined to bugger off at the first whiff of something better.
They have all moved on with our blessings and the gratitude of our family business for working so hard for us.
Those blokes sitting back and whinging that the chicks are "taking all the jobs" or "getting all the promotions" probably need to worry less about what's between everyone's legs, and more about their own work ethic and professionalism.
[/rant]
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Here is an article about an internal document that's floating around at Google on diversity in the tech industry criticising its ideological echo chamber. Although it extensively references software development, it could readily fit any technical or high stress field.
Exclusive: Here's The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google [Updated]
Exclusive: Here's The Full 10-Page Anti-Diversity Screed Circulating Internally at Google [Updated]
Female "Quotas" and talk of "gender equity" in any business in my experience means that the Board of the company are under pressure from the feminist lobby - an entity I call "The Old Girls Club" which is at least as powerful as the old boys network and can work publicly due to the current political correctness climate.
By that I mean, these people are treated as saintly campaigners for equality instead of the power hungry **** they really are.
Anyway "quotas" means that any female that applies and is remotely qualified will be appointed. It also usually means that any promotion of a male must be accompanied by a written explanation of why a female didn't get the job.
Unfortunately I've had direct experience of all of the above, including seeing two worthless individuals receive OA's.
By that I mean, these people are treated as saintly campaigners for equality instead of the power hungry **** they really are.
Anyway "quotas" means that any female that applies and is remotely qualified will be appointed. It also usually means that any promotion of a male must be accompanied by a written explanation of why a female didn't get the job.
Unfortunately I've had direct experience of all of the above, including seeing two worthless individuals receive OA's.
When I was in the Australian Defence Force on the 90's and 00's we had a big gender push into many "men only" jobs.
I remember when submarine service opened to women. Flood of applicants initially as expected but then it pretty much dried up. The "hundreds" of women submariners never materialised.
I think aviation is the same. There just aren't the numbers of women interested to make it a 50/50 split. Nothing to do with ability, they probably just want a different career.
I remember when submarine service opened to women. Flood of applicants initially as expected but then it pretty much dried up. The "hundreds" of women submariners never materialised.
I think aviation is the same. There just aren't the numbers of women interested to make it a 50/50 split. Nothing to do with ability, they probably just want a different career.
I think aviation is the same. There just aren't the numbers of women interested to make it a 50/50 split. Nothing to do with ability, they probably just want a different career.
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