Jetstar Aiming for 50% Gender Spilt in Interview Candidates
Interesting to see the South Australian Police Association today expressing serious concerns about a similarly ridiculous proposal.




SA News
Police officers have rejected a new 50-50 gender recruitment quota
April 21, 2016 12:43am
STEVE RICEPOLICE REPORTERThe Advertiser

POLICE officers have rejected “rigid” gender recruitment quotas amid claims they will compromise public safety by lowering standards.
The Police Association has criticised the imposition of a 50-50 recruitment policy it says dictates gender is more important than ability when selecting new officers.
Opposition to the quota — introduced on January 1 this year — comes as new figures reveal 22 per cent fewer men would be recruited as police officers because of their gender.
Police have denied excluding men or lowering standards, saying the 50-50 recruitment policy is a “win-win situation” for the community and people wishing to become officers.
It says recruiting equal numbers of men and women is part of a plan to promote a modern, professional workforce.
But Police Association president Mark Carroll told The Advertiser:
“The goal is to be an employer of choice.”
“The challenge for all professional occupations is to attract quality applicants — men and women — who possess the requisite aptitude, skills, values and education standards,” he said.
“Any applicant who reaches the necessary high standards should not be denied employment based on rigid gender quotas.
“Likewise, an overnight change to long-established recruitment practices that does not take into account the reasons many women leave the police force misses the point entirely.
“A rigid policy to recruit equal numbers of men and women doesn’t address this problem.”
Police Commissioner Grant Stevens announced in December last year a 50-50 recruitment policy to address gender imbalance within the force.
Mr Stevens said the changes would be introduced to ensure police better represented the community it served.
Freedom of Information figures obtained by The Advertiser reveal that, between 2012 and 2015, 75 per cent of police force applicants were men.
The figures also show that, during the same period, there were 443 men — or 72 per cent — among the 615 new officers recruited.
Based on those figures under the 50-50 gender recruitment policy, 22 per cent fewer men would be employed in favour of women.
Mr Carroll said the union was concerned about the ability of the police force to retain both men and women.
He said female officers left the force, on average, after seven to eight years of service.
“We argue that SAPOL needs to recognise that men and women — at certain points in their careers — require flexible working arrangements to balance family commitments,” he said.
“In a 24/7, 365-day-a-year occupation, finding that balance is a unique challenge, but it is not insurmountable.
“The police profession already offers highly competitive employment conditions as well as diverse and unique fields of endeavour within the job.
“This is an important feature of the job and it enables it to attract the right type of recruit regardless of gender.”
Family First MLC Robert Brokenshire, who sought the FoI figures, said policies such as gender quotas would not necessarily deliver the best outcome for an organisation.
Mr Brokenshire said there was a risk of missing out on the best talent with a 50-50 recruitment policy, which left men at a disadvantage in their opportunities to become a police officer.
“If the best talent is more women than men then fine but it should be on talent and ability and not on a quota,” he said.
“Policing is one of the most complex occupations in society and therefore you need to ensure you have the best possible skill mix.”
Mr Brokenshire said he had spoken with men who were concerned about the increased difficulty of becoming police officers.
“There is a risk that men may decide their chances are going to be even slimmer now with a 50-50 gender policy and go and look elsewhere for a career,” he said.
“If the best talent pool is 90 per cent women and 10 per cent men in a given year then you take 90 per cent women but you look at the talent pool not at a policy of 50-50 at all costs.”
A police spokesman said its recruitment standards “are and will remain high” and that gender parity was not about excluding men or lowering standards.
“Growing a fair, equitable workplace has the benefit of attracting the right sort of person — men and women — into our job,” he said.
“It is a win-win situation for the community as well as for every person who desires to become a police officer.”
The spokesman said police needed to reflect the community it served, having traditionally been an occupation for men.
“We are promoting a modern, professional workforce in a way that aims to attract more applications from women right now who might not have considered a policing career in the past,” he said.
Police officers have rejected a new 50-50 gender recruitment quota
April 21, 2016 12:43am
STEVE RICEPOLICE REPORTERThe Advertiser

POLICE officers have rejected “rigid” gender recruitment quotas amid claims they will compromise public safety by lowering standards.
The Police Association has criticised the imposition of a 50-50 recruitment policy it says dictates gender is more important than ability when selecting new officers.
Opposition to the quota — introduced on January 1 this year — comes as new figures reveal 22 per cent fewer men would be recruited as police officers because of their gender.
Police have denied excluding men or lowering standards, saying the 50-50 recruitment policy is a “win-win situation” for the community and people wishing to become officers.
It says recruiting equal numbers of men and women is part of a plan to promote a modern, professional workforce.
But Police Association president Mark Carroll told The Advertiser:
“The goal is to be an employer of choice.”
“The challenge for all professional occupations is to attract quality applicants — men and women — who possess the requisite aptitude, skills, values and education standards,” he said.
“Any applicant who reaches the necessary high standards should not be denied employment based on rigid gender quotas.
“Likewise, an overnight change to long-established recruitment practices that does not take into account the reasons many women leave the police force misses the point entirely.
“A rigid policy to recruit equal numbers of men and women doesn’t address this problem.”
Police Commissioner Grant Stevens announced in December last year a 50-50 recruitment policy to address gender imbalance within the force.
Mr Stevens said the changes would be introduced to ensure police better represented the community it served.
Freedom of Information figures obtained by The Advertiser reveal that, between 2012 and 2015, 75 per cent of police force applicants were men.
The figures also show that, during the same period, there were 443 men — or 72 per cent — among the 615 new officers recruited.
Based on those figures under the 50-50 gender recruitment policy, 22 per cent fewer men would be employed in favour of women.
Mr Carroll said the union was concerned about the ability of the police force to retain both men and women.
He said female officers left the force, on average, after seven to eight years of service.
“We argue that SAPOL needs to recognise that men and women — at certain points in their careers — require flexible working arrangements to balance family commitments,” he said.
“In a 24/7, 365-day-a-year occupation, finding that balance is a unique challenge, but it is not insurmountable.
“The police profession already offers highly competitive employment conditions as well as diverse and unique fields of endeavour within the job.
“This is an important feature of the job and it enables it to attract the right type of recruit regardless of gender.”
Family First MLC Robert Brokenshire, who sought the FoI figures, said policies such as gender quotas would not necessarily deliver the best outcome for an organisation.
Mr Brokenshire said there was a risk of missing out on the best talent with a 50-50 recruitment policy, which left men at a disadvantage in their opportunities to become a police officer.
“If the best talent is more women than men then fine but it should be on talent and ability and not on a quota,” he said.
“Policing is one of the most complex occupations in society and therefore you need to ensure you have the best possible skill mix.”
Mr Brokenshire said he had spoken with men who were concerned about the increased difficulty of becoming police officers.
“There is a risk that men may decide their chances are going to be even slimmer now with a 50-50 gender policy and go and look elsewhere for a career,” he said.
“If the best talent pool is 90 per cent women and 10 per cent men in a given year then you take 90 per cent women but you look at the talent pool not at a policy of 50-50 at all costs.”
A police spokesman said its recruitment standards “are and will remain high” and that gender parity was not about excluding men or lowering standards.
“Growing a fair, equitable workplace has the benefit of attracting the right sort of person — men and women — into our job,” he said.
“It is a win-win situation for the community as well as for every person who desires to become a police officer.”
The spokesman said police needed to reflect the community it served, having traditionally been an occupation for men.
“We are promoting a modern, professional workforce in a way that aims to attract more applications from women right now who might not have considered a policing career in the past,” he said.
Last edited by Compylot; 21st Apr 2016 at 13:20.
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Now seriously...
Seriously, Australia needs to have a really good hard look at itself in a room full of mirrors! 
It has become a very sad, stagnating left wind socialist "nanny-state" where you legislate for the stupid and idiotic fools. You get a medal for just being there, NOT for winning or 2nd/3rd place! What ****e is that?
Take a good look around the world at the countries that followed this socialist line and look at the mess they're in now!
If you want to be a pilot, do it and if you're good enough and pass the myriad of tests, you make it. End of story! Male OR female.
The reason alot of people are not joining the industry now has been covered in many a thread here on PP.
It has become a very sad, stagnating left wind socialist "nanny-state" where you legislate for the stupid and idiotic fools. You get a medal for just being there, NOT for winning or 2nd/3rd place! What ****e is that?
Take a good look around the world at the countries that followed this socialist line and look at the mess they're in now!
If you want to be a pilot, do it and if you're good enough and pass the myriad of tests, you make it. End of story! Male OR female.
The reason alot of people are not joining the industry now has been covered in many a thread here on PP.
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I'm equal parts English, Irish, Scottish and Dutch with parts of that making up about 1/4 Jewish (paternal so doesn't count I hear)
Surely that combination should represent about 1 in every 10 successful candidates!?
Surely that combination should represent about 1 in every 10 successful candidates!?
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I have,over the years been very successful with ticking the "South Pacific Islander" box.Im obviously the albino kind,as Pakeha as can be,but no one has ever questioned it.
On the question of the 50/50,just ask UAL how that type of hiring worked out for them,it not only didn't work,but there is lingering resentment to this day!!!!
On the question of the 50/50,just ask UAL how that type of hiring worked out for them,it not only didn't work,but there is lingering resentment to this day!!!!
Love the nonsense flying around on this thread.
Das Uber, you will find with a little research yourself that the government: police and defense for example, can use quotas when selecting candidates for positions. Oic made the point that the private sector cannot. You should be a little more careful with how you cherry pick quotes.
And Keg thinks the industry has done nothing to foster the massive workforce imbalance in the airline industry. How did such an imbalance come about then? Examining what can be done to encourage more women to join the industry should not imply the assignment of blame, no one is suggesting you are any individual is at fault for the state of affairs. The airline game needs to figure out how to make the industry more accessible to women and as someone has already suggested, that requires a grass roots approach. And a generational change. A quota system has merit in some situations but not this one.
Plus, a little research will quickly reveal that it's not legal.
Das Uber, you will find with a little research yourself that the government: police and defense for example, can use quotas when selecting candidates for positions. Oic made the point that the private sector cannot. You should be a little more careful with how you cherry pick quotes.
And Keg thinks the industry has done nothing to foster the massive workforce imbalance in the airline industry. How did such an imbalance come about then? Examining what can be done to encourage more women to join the industry should not imply the assignment of blame, no one is suggesting you are any individual is at fault for the state of affairs. The airline game needs to figure out how to make the industry more accessible to women and as someone has already suggested, that requires a grass roots approach. And a generational change. A quota system has merit in some situations but not this one.
Plus, a little research will quickly reveal that it's not legal.
Just tick the identify with being indigenous box. You don't need to prove it, you just have to identify with being.
Suddenly all sorts of 'help' will appear from government to HR
Suddenly all sorts of 'help' will appear from government to HR
How about all people take responsibility for their own wants, desires and pursue their dreams despite what they think other people think?
Do we really need to all be treated like a special little snowflake now a days?
There are very very few people who have gone through GA that have had an easy run regardless of their age, race, sex or sexual orientation, so why should anything but pure skill, determination and ability, including the ability to work as an effective member of the team be a determining factor whether you get a job?
While we're at it how about anyone who had their family fund their training be excluded? Or maybe anyone who used a government loan scheme to get their licence? Maybe anyone who's right handed should be excluded from a position? Wait, I think redheads are unfairly being excluded from pilot jobs.
There's plenty of people blaming others as to why they're being kept down, but at the end of the day you're only responsible for keeping you down, you!
On another note, I would really like to see some more albino, buddhist, redheads from both an australian aboriginal and alaskan malamute background that feel that they are gender neutral be promoted to higher levels of aviation.
Do we really need to all be treated like a special little snowflake now a days?
There are very very few people who have gone through GA that have had an easy run regardless of their age, race, sex or sexual orientation, so why should anything but pure skill, determination and ability, including the ability to work as an effective member of the team be a determining factor whether you get a job?
While we're at it how about anyone who had their family fund their training be excluded? Or maybe anyone who used a government loan scheme to get their licence? Maybe anyone who's right handed should be excluded from a position? Wait, I think redheads are unfairly being excluded from pilot jobs.
There's plenty of people blaming others as to why they're being kept down, but at the end of the day you're only responsible for keeping you down, you!
On another note, I would really like to see some more albino, buddhist, redheads from both an australian aboriginal and alaskan malamute background that feel that they are gender neutral be promoted to higher levels of aviation.
The problem with quotas in any job whether it be a male dominated field such as pilots or a female dominated field such as nursing, if you encourage applicants on the simple fact that they need to fill a quota you're not necessarily getting applications from an equal pool of application.
It is a simple fact that different genders gravitate toward different industries. Even when there are concerted efforts from the state or private industry to change this fact, the genders in the long run tend to go back to where they have always been. Women are almost never carpenters. Men are almost never nurses. There is no natural 50/50 split to almost any industry today.
That being the case, if the entire pool of potential applications isn't a 50/50 split in the first place how are you going to get the best person for the job if you aim for a 50/50 split in the workforce but 90% of the applicants are men and 10% are female for example.
That would mean you would need to be an exceptional male candidate and a mediocre female candidate to be successful in a male dominated industry. Conversely you would need to be an exceptional female candidate and a mediocre male candidate in a female dominated industry.
Common sense would dictate that is a crazy notion to entertain however in today's world of PC craziness I'm sure there is a catchall word to shut down any discussion to the contrary. Modern society doesn't tend to deal with simple facts these days moreso they deal with the feelings based ideologies of the left wing.
It is a simple fact that different genders gravitate toward different industries. Even when there are concerted efforts from the state or private industry to change this fact, the genders in the long run tend to go back to where they have always been. Women are almost never carpenters. Men are almost never nurses. There is no natural 50/50 split to almost any industry today.
That being the case, if the entire pool of potential applications isn't a 50/50 split in the first place how are you going to get the best person for the job if you aim for a 50/50 split in the workforce but 90% of the applicants are men and 10% are female for example.
That would mean you would need to be an exceptional male candidate and a mediocre female candidate to be successful in a male dominated industry. Conversely you would need to be an exceptional female candidate and a mediocre male candidate in a female dominated industry.
Common sense would dictate that is a crazy notion to entertain however in today's world of PC craziness I'm sure there is a catchall word to shut down any discussion to the contrary. Modern society doesn't tend to deal with simple facts these days moreso they deal with the feelings based ideologies of the left wing.
Nunc est bibendum
Don't verbal me Orange future. I'm not ignorant to the fact that 40 Yeats ago the industry employment bodies were allowed to discriminate. So I'm that respect your statement....
... is complete and utter BS.
Before we start looking at the proferred solution of quotas, care to tell me what it is that currently makes the industry inaccessible or less accessible to women in Australia? Laws prohibiting women from becoming pilots? Hiring practises by airlines that discriminate against females? Difficulty for women in accessing training? What exactly is it? No one has yet defined what these barriers are and until that time you have a solution (quotas) dressed up to fix a problem that you deliberately and mischievously misdiagnose.
At least you agree quotas aren't the right fix. Still, until you diagnose the problem correctly it's simply noise.
And Keg thinks the industry has done nothing to foster the massive workforce imbalance in the airline industry.
The airline game needs to figure out how to make the industry more accessible to women.......
At least you agree quotas aren't the right fix. Still, until you diagnose the problem correctly it's simply noise.
Das Uber, you will find with a little research yourself that the government: police and defense for example, can use quotas when selecting candidates for positions. Oic made the point that the private sector cannot. You should be a little more careful with how you cherry pick quotes.
You couldn't make this garbage up.
The rest of your post, as keg puts it, is noise.
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"The airline game needs to figure out how to make the industry more accessible to women......."
Orange future, give me one example of how the current industry is not accessible to women. With the exception of the odd rouge GA operator, I don't see the slightest impediment to women in the industry, and no woman I've worked with has had the slightest bit of trouble achieving their career goals, or being completely accepted by their male peers (with the exception of a handful of near-retirement dinosaurs, but you'll always get that).
You're discussing solutions to a problem which doesn't exist, unless your definition of the "problem" is "we have more male pilots than female pilots".
Orange future, give me one example of how the current industry is not accessible to women. With the exception of the odd rouge GA operator, I don't see the slightest impediment to women in the industry, and no woman I've worked with has had the slightest bit of trouble achieving their career goals, or being completely accepted by their male peers (with the exception of a handful of near-retirement dinosaurs, but you'll always get that).
You're discussing solutions to a problem which doesn't exist, unless your definition of the "problem" is "we have more male pilots than female pilots".
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Either way,after reading articles and posts on the subject,I now firmly believe Americas version of "affirmative-action" has finally extended its ugly tentacles downunder,they just want to call it something else.The furor over this type of "business"has still not subsided in here parts,and there are many instances of its futility.
I don't think the problem is with quotas that mean male candidates miss out on flying jobs.
I think a real issue coming up is an acknowledgement that currently too many women write off becoming pilots, and we are missing out on almost 50% of the population and almost 50% of the available talent pool in recruitment. Which I think could come back to bite airlines in the future.
And it's not just female pilots being positively portrayed in the media etc, I've spoken with many people who still think aviation is a profession that can only be performed by physically strong, emotionless, adrenaline-seeking Type A personalities (qualities seen as more "macho" than feminine) and any woman who pursues aviation is sort of a "tomboy". Of course in reality that's definitely not the case but those perceptions do exist in the wider community.
I think a real issue coming up is an acknowledgement that currently too many women write off becoming pilots, and we are missing out on almost 50% of the population and almost 50% of the available talent pool in recruitment. Which I think could come back to bite airlines in the future.
And it's not just female pilots being positively portrayed in the media etc, I've spoken with many people who still think aviation is a profession that can only be performed by physically strong, emotionless, adrenaline-seeking Type A personalities (qualities seen as more "macho" than feminine) and any woman who pursues aviation is sort of a "tomboy". Of course in reality that's definitely not the case but those perceptions do exist in the wider community.
Still, until you diagnose the problem correctly it's simply noise.
However there obviously is a problem. Can we all agree that females were not born disinterested in flying (A rhetorical question obviously)? Somewhere along the way they have been socialized into turning away from the profession. As I mentioned before, this argument is not to assign blame. Its not our fault, its not Jetstar's fault. I have not suggested that women are not given a fair chance. But clearly there is a problem as so few women see airline flying as a viable profession as evidenced by their participation rate.
But it is a problem that impacts JQ (and all airlines) and you should not fault them for laying the groundwork for figuring out how to adjust course in this regard.
Until then, if the VAST majority of cockpit seats are occupied by men only, then statistically you are not always employing the best person for the job, something which appears to concern many of you.
Interesting research paper (written by a female):
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Airline_Pilots
finds that female pilots have higher accident rates and that
"affirmative action programs should not be
designed to lower the flying standards for
females in order to increase the number of
female airline pilots."
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Airline_Pilots
finds that female pilots have higher accident rates and that
"affirmative action programs should not be
designed to lower the flying standards for
females in order to increase the number of
female airline pilots."