Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Jetstar Aiming for 50% Gender Spilt in Interview Candidates

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Jetstar Aiming for 50% Gender Spilt in Interview Candidates

Old 12th May 2016, 10:02
  #181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Space, The final frontier
Posts: 11
It's only a flesh wound.....
captains.log is offline  
Old 12th May 2016, 11:55
  #182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: aus
Posts: 49
"one day lad, all this will be yours..."
"What? The curtains?"
"No! not the curtains lad..."
titan uranus is offline  
Old 18th May 2016, 12:55
  #183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15
Brilliant.

Melbourne University advertises female-only jobs in bid to remedy gender imbalance in maths - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

das Uber Soldat is online now  
Old 18th May 2016, 12:58
  #184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15
And to the muppets (eg oicur12.again) lecturing me that J* actively altering the interview and shortlist numbers is illegal. It isn't.

Equal Opportunity Act allows for positive discrimination

The University of Melbourne positions have been advertised using a special measure of the Victorian Equal Opportunity Act.

"The use of this kind of special measure that we're using has been used with regards to Indigenous employment," Professor Owczarek said.

"For this kind of positions, permanent continuing academic positions, I believe it might be the first time it's been used," he added.

Discrimination lawyer Rowan Skinner said the Act allows organisations to take actions to promote equality.

"The Act specifically permits an organisation to engage in what is overtly a discriminatory Act, but for the purposes of ensuring that there is equal opportunity overall," Mr Skinner said.
das Uber Soldat is online now  
Old 18th May 2016, 13:04
  #185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 237
so can a male reassign themselves as a female, apply, get the job then re-reassign themselves as a male?
clark y is offline  
Old 18th May 2016, 13:53
  #186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: A hemisphere
Posts: 184
I think Tuesday is the "Ladies Night" for free drinks. Can someone let me know what day the "Mens night" is?
twentyyearstoolate is offline  
Old 18th May 2016, 13:54
  #187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lost in Space
Posts: 153
I am concerned at what the future will hold for my children. I have both male and female children.
I am a practicing equalicist!!
Good grief.
t_cas is offline  
Old 18th May 2016, 14:04
  #188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 52
Posts: 2,767
Boy oh boy I bet there are a few male maths academics who were aiming for those slots that are fuming right now.I imagine there aren't too many positions available to Melbourne based Maths academics and now there are three less if you were born with a todger.
framer is offline  
Old 18th May 2016, 18:30
  #189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Syd
Posts: 9
Bleeding Air

“…..which has already happened in certain jobs (e.g. police)”

See below, the police are subject to very different provisions of the Equal Opportunity Act, it does not imply a similar policy can be employed by JQ.

Uber

“And to the muppets (eg oicur12.again) lecturing me that J* actively altering the interview and shortlist numbers is illegal. It isn't.”

It is illegal.

The example of the university you have supplied in no way proves that JQ can therefore discriminate by applying a quota system to see more women employed.

Exceptions to the Equal Opportunity Act differ widely between schools, universities, sporting clubs, government employees and private sector employees.

Exceptions can be granted based upon a wide range of needs such as health and safety or special needs, just to name a few of many.

For sure, JQ could seek an exception to bias employment of pilots towards women. The request would, however, need JQ to demonstrate a Genuine Occupational Requirement that pilots employed by the company be women. For example, if strength or stamina was an issue.

JQ could not meet any of the exemption provisions, the law is very clear.
Orange future is offline  
Old 18th May 2016, 23:07
  #190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 907
I fly with an amputee - more amputees I say.
Indeed Titan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsdCGV0cY0s
V-Jet is offline  
Old 19th May 2016, 00:16
  #191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,377
Jetstar Aiming for 50% Gender Spilt in Interview Candidates
My mummy was a girl and my Daddy was a boy.

Doesn't that make me 50% female?
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 19th May 2016, 03:01
  #192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15
For sure, JQ could seek an exception to bias employment of pilots towards women. The request would, however, need JQ to demonstrate a Genuine Occupational Requirement that pilots employed by the company be women. For example, if strength or stamina was an issue.
That's not how I read the law.

Jetstar doesn't need to seek an exemption. Under the Equal Opportunity Act 2010, exemptions are no longer needed in many situations as they were in the 1995 act – they are regarded as special measures.

Special measures

Under the Equal Opportunity Act 2010 people and organisations can take positive steps to help disadvantaged groups. These are called ‘special measures’ under the Act.

This means that it is not unlawful discrimination to take a special measure that promotes substantive equality for a group of people who have one (or more) protected characteristics, such as race, sex or disability.

This is one of the ways the Act promotes substantive equality.
Special measures are NOT limited to Government departments and Educational institutions. They are available to private companies too. Lets look at the legislation itself.

Special measures
(1) A person may take a special measure for the purpose of promoting or realising substantive equality for members of a group with a particular attribute.

Examples;
1 A company (Private, just like J*!) operates in an industry in which Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders are under-represented. The company develops a training program to increase employment opportunities in the company for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.
2 A swimming pool that is located in an area with a significant Muslim population holds women-only swimming sessions to enable Muslim women who cannot swim in mixed company to use the pool.
3 A person establishes a counselling service to provide counselling for gay men and lesbians who are victims of family violence, and whose needs are not met by general family violence counselling services.

(2) A person does not discriminate against another person by taking a special measure. s. 12
(3) A special measure must—
    (4) A measure is taken for the purpose set out in subsection (1) if it is taken—
      (5) A person who undertakes a special measure may impose reasonable restrictions on eligibility for the measure.
      I see nothing differentiating between a Universities ability to implement a special measure, and that of a private organization such as Jetstar. All they need to do is meet the burden listed in (2) and they're legal. If you believe this isn't the case, please cite the specific legislation.

      Women in aviation have suffered historical discrimination (nobody here will deny that), and are numerically under represented in the field. This absolutely is grounds for J* to implement a special measure.

      Further, I've asked about 30 times, all of you (2nd person plural) have simply skipped over it. Jetstar say they've been working hard for a year on adjusting the numerical balance of interview candidates and shortlist job positions. What are they actually doing? What evidence do you have for it?

      Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 19th May 2016 at 04:57.
      das Uber Soldat is online now  
      Old 19th May 2016, 04:30
        #193 (permalink)  
       
      Join Date: Aug 2005
      Location: Brisbane
      Posts: 590
      Heard an interesting rumour this morning that this may well extend beyond mere gender balancing at an entry level and is not confined to one group entity.

      Challenge to seniority anyone?
      C441 is offline  
      Old 19th May 2016, 09:13
        #194 (permalink)  
       
      Join Date: Sep 2008
      Location: 41S174E
      Age: 52
      Posts: 2,767
      Can you elaborate C441?
      I'm not sure what you're driving at.
      Ta
      framer is offline  
      Old 19th May 2016, 10:04
        #195 (permalink)  
       
      Join Date: Nov 2011
      Location: Vietnam
      Posts: 1,244
      441 is saying the act may be used to fast track commands outside of the established seniorority list.
      pilotchute is offline  
      Old 19th May 2016, 19:26
        #196 (permalink)  
       
      Join Date: Sep 2008
      Location: 41S174E
      Age: 52
      Posts: 2,767
      To what end?
      framer is offline  
      Old 20th May 2016, 14:48
        #197 (permalink)  
       
      Join Date: Apr 2016
      Location: Syd
      Posts: 9
      Das uber,

      You call people muppets and then want them to provide the links for you.

      I suggest you actually read the 149 page 2010 Act instead of just downloading the 2 page fact sheet.

      I am well aware of employment law in Victoria and again, JQ will not be applying quotas.

      "What are they actually doing? What evidence do you have for it?"

      And i may have answered this before? I dont know what they are doing. Its not my company and not my business. All I know is what is published in the article:

      ".....aim for an even split....." and "an explanation must be provided" and "striving for better diversity".

      Maybe they have started an ad campaign to convince girls considering the industry that it is totally possible. Maybe they are holding aviation forums at girls schools.

      Its up to JQ as to how they achieve an "even split", but I assure you, it wont be by applying an employment quota.

      Can I ask you das uber, why do you think JQ would want to discriminate against male pilots? What do you think would be the motivation?
      Orange future is offline  
      Old 21st May 2016, 00:22
        #198 (permalink)  
       
      Join Date: May 2010
      Location: australia
      Posts: 278
      Can I ask you das uber, why do you think JQ would want to discriminate against male pilots? What do you think would be the motivation?
      Bitter man-hating feminists in executive/HR positions with a chip on their shoulder.
      mikewil is offline  
      Old 21st May 2016, 01:01
        #199 (permalink)  
       
      Join Date: Jan 2007
      Location: Sydney
      Posts: 15
      Das uber,

      You call people muppets and then want them to provide the links for you.
      No, I want you to provide this brand new thing called evidence. So far you've provided none and expect empty assertion to pass for argument. That's not how it works.

      I suggest you actually read the 149 page 2010 Act instead of just downloading the 2 page fact sheet.
      I have. Have you? Because if you had, you'd recognize that the 2nd quoted paragraph was the relevant section of the act itself, not something from a fact sheet.

      I am well aware of employment law in Victoria and again, JQ will not be applying quotas.
      Ah, the list of logical fallacies grows. This is one of my favorites.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

      "What are they actually doing? What evidence do you have for it?"

      And i may have answered this before? I dont know what they are doing. Its not my company and not my business. All I know is what is published in the article:
      Let me translate that for everyone here; "No, I don't have any evidence. But let me try to phrase it in such a way so that it doesn't sound so bad."

      ".....aim for an even split....." and "an explanation must be provided" and "striving for better diversity".

      Maybe they have started an ad campaign to convince girls considering the industry that it is totally possible. Maybe they are holding aviation forums at girls schools.
      Maybe they're building a rocket to take us to Mars too.

      Its up to JQ as to how they achieve an "even split", but I assure you, it wont be by applying an employment quota.
      Assure me based on what evidence?

      Can I ask you das uber, why do you think JQ would want to discriminate against male pilots? What do you think would be the motivation?
      The real question, the better question, is why did you ask this when the answer is so obvious? The reason is you're trying to pivot the debate away from that of the legality of the discriminatory practices of Jetstar, an argument you're rapidly losing (some say lost), into an inevitably circular and pointless argument about the motivations of the company, which isn't relevant and isn't something I'm interested in being caught up in.
      So, lets recap.

      Is J*'s stated aim illegal? It isn't.

      Why? Because I've shown you specific legislation that enables it. When challenged, you have failed entirely to provide evidence otherwise.

      This is why I call people muppets.

      das Uber Soldat is online now  
      Old 21st May 2016, 06:46
        #200 (permalink)  
       
      Join Date: Feb 2016
      Location: Greater London Area
      Posts: 166
      What about hiring the Indigenous Female? That ticks 2 boxes and they can get on with the job..
      Even better if she sits in a wheelchair, makes a tick at the disabled quota as well ...
      When does this BS come to an end?
      Pushing every selection to a "gender problem" does not help anything.

      Had a fight with my female boss a while ago and was blamed to not accept her as superior because of her gender. I give a damn on it, leadership incapability is leadership incapability and has nothing to do with gender (except for those who got their job only due to quota not talent).
      Fly4Business is offline  

      Thread Tools
      Search this Thread

      Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

      Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.