Jetstar Aiming for 50% Gender Spilt in Interview Candidates
And to the muppets (eg oicur12.again) lecturing me that J* actively altering the interview and shortlist numbers is illegal. It isn't.
Equal Opportunity Act allows for positive discrimination
Equal Opportunity Act allows for positive discrimination
The University of Melbourne positions have been advertised using a special measure of the Victorian Equal Opportunity Act.
"The use of this kind of special measure that we're using has been used with regards to Indigenous employment," Professor Owczarek said.
"For this kind of positions, permanent continuing academic positions, I believe it might be the first time it's been used," he added.
Discrimination lawyer Rowan Skinner said the Act allows organisations to take actions to promote equality.
"The Act specifically permits an organisation to engage in what is overtly a discriminatory Act, but for the purposes of ensuring that there is equal opportunity overall," Mr Skinner said.
"The use of this kind of special measure that we're using has been used with regards to Indigenous employment," Professor Owczarek said.
"For this kind of positions, permanent continuing academic positions, I believe it might be the first time it's been used," he added.
Discrimination lawyer Rowan Skinner said the Act allows organisations to take actions to promote equality.
"The Act specifically permits an organisation to engage in what is overtly a discriminatory Act, but for the purposes of ensuring that there is equal opportunity overall," Mr Skinner said.
Boy oh boy I bet there are a few male maths academics who were aiming for those slots that are fuming right now.I imagine there aren't too many positions available to Melbourne based Maths academics and now there are three less if you were born with a todger.
Bleeding Air
“…..which has already happened in certain jobs (e.g. police)”
See below, the police are subject to very different provisions of the Equal Opportunity Act, it does not imply a similar policy can be employed by JQ.
Uber
“And to the muppets (eg oicur12.again) lecturing me that J* actively altering the interview and shortlist numbers is illegal. It isn't.”
It is illegal.
The example of the university you have supplied in no way proves that JQ can therefore discriminate by applying a quota system to see more women employed.
Exceptions to the Equal Opportunity Act differ widely between schools, universities, sporting clubs, government employees and private sector employees.
Exceptions can be granted based upon a wide range of needs such as health and safety or special needs, just to name a few of many.
For sure, JQ could seek an exception to bias employment of pilots towards women. The request would, however, need JQ to demonstrate a Genuine Occupational Requirement that pilots employed by the company be women. For example, if strength or stamina was an issue.
JQ could not meet any of the exemption provisions, the law is very clear.
“…..which has already happened in certain jobs (e.g. police)”
See below, the police are subject to very different provisions of the Equal Opportunity Act, it does not imply a similar policy can be employed by JQ.
Uber
“And to the muppets (eg oicur12.again) lecturing me that J* actively altering the interview and shortlist numbers is illegal. It isn't.”
It is illegal.
The example of the university you have supplied in no way proves that JQ can therefore discriminate by applying a quota system to see more women employed.
Exceptions to the Equal Opportunity Act differ widely between schools, universities, sporting clubs, government employees and private sector employees.
Exceptions can be granted based upon a wide range of needs such as health and safety or special needs, just to name a few of many.
For sure, JQ could seek an exception to bias employment of pilots towards women. The request would, however, need JQ to demonstrate a Genuine Occupational Requirement that pilots employed by the company be women. For example, if strength or stamina was an issue.
JQ could not meet any of the exemption provisions, the law is very clear.
I fly with an amputee - more amputees I say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsdCGV0cY0s
Jetstar Aiming for 50% Gender Spilt in Interview Candidates
Doesn't that make me 50% female?
For sure, JQ could seek an exception to bias employment of pilots towards women. The request would, however, need JQ to demonstrate a Genuine Occupational Requirement that pilots employed by the company be women. For example, if strength or stamina was an issue.
Jetstar doesn't need to seek an exemption. Under the Equal Opportunity Act 2010, exemptions are no longer needed in many situations as they were in the 1995 act – they are regarded as special measures.
Special measures
Under the Equal Opportunity Act 2010 people and organisations can take positive steps to help disadvantaged groups. These are called ‘special measures’ under the Act.
This means that it is not unlawful discrimination to take a special measure that promotes substantive equality for a group of people who have one (or more) protected characteristics, such as race, sex or disability.
This is one of the ways the Act promotes substantive equality.
Under the Equal Opportunity Act 2010 people and organisations can take positive steps to help disadvantaged groups. These are called ‘special measures’ under the Act.
This means that it is not unlawful discrimination to take a special measure that promotes substantive equality for a group of people who have one (or more) protected characteristics, such as race, sex or disability.
This is one of the ways the Act promotes substantive equality.
Special measures
(1) A person may take a special measure for the purpose of promoting or realising substantive equality for members of a group with a particular attribute.
Examples;
1 A company (Private, just like J*!) operates in an industry in which Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders are under-represented. The company develops a training program to increase employment opportunities in the company for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.
2 A swimming pool that is located in an area with a significant Muslim population holds women-only swimming sessions to enable Muslim women who cannot swim in mixed company to use the pool.
3 A person establishes a counselling service to provide counselling for gay men and lesbians who are victims of family violence, and whose needs are not met by general family violence counselling services.
(2) A person does not discriminate against another person by taking a special measure. s. 12
(3) A special measure must—
(1) A person may take a special measure for the purpose of promoting or realising substantive equality for members of a group with a particular attribute.
Examples;
1 A company (Private, just like J*!) operates in an industry in which Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders are under-represented. The company develops a training program to increase employment opportunities in the company for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.
2 A swimming pool that is located in an area with a significant Muslim population holds women-only swimming sessions to enable Muslim women who cannot swim in mixed company to use the pool.
3 A person establishes a counselling service to provide counselling for gay men and lesbians who are victims of family violence, and whose needs are not met by general family violence counselling services.
(2) A person does not discriminate against another person by taking a special measure. s. 12
(3) A special measure must—
Women in aviation have suffered historical discrimination (nobody here will deny that), and are numerically under represented in the field. This absolutely is grounds for J* to implement a special measure.
Further, I've asked about 30 times, all of you (2nd person plural) have simply skipped over it. Jetstar say they've been working hard for a year on adjusting the numerical balance of interview candidates and shortlist job positions. What are they actually doing? What evidence do you have for it?
Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 19th May 2016 at 03:57.
Heard an interesting rumour this morning that this may well extend beyond mere gender balancing at an entry level and is not confined to one group entity.
Challenge to seniority anyone?
Challenge to seniority anyone?
Das uber,
You call people muppets and then want them to provide the links for you.
I suggest you actually read the 149 page 2010 Act instead of just downloading the 2 page fact sheet.
I am well aware of employment law in Victoria and again, JQ will not be applying quotas.
"What are they actually doing? What evidence do you have for it?"
And i may have answered this before? I dont know what they are doing. Its not my company and not my business. All I know is what is published in the article:
".....aim for an even split....." and "an explanation must be provided" and "striving for better diversity".
Maybe they have started an ad campaign to convince girls considering the industry that it is totally possible. Maybe they are holding aviation forums at girls schools.
Its up to JQ as to how they achieve an "even split", but I assure you, it wont be by applying an employment quota.
Can I ask you das uber, why do you think JQ would want to discriminate against male pilots? What do you think would be the motivation?
You call people muppets and then want them to provide the links for you.
I suggest you actually read the 149 page 2010 Act instead of just downloading the 2 page fact sheet.
I am well aware of employment law in Victoria and again, JQ will not be applying quotas.
"What are they actually doing? What evidence do you have for it?"
And i may have answered this before? I dont know what they are doing. Its not my company and not my business. All I know is what is published in the article:
".....aim for an even split....." and "an explanation must be provided" and "striving for better diversity".
Maybe they have started an ad campaign to convince girls considering the industry that it is totally possible. Maybe they are holding aviation forums at girls schools.
Its up to JQ as to how they achieve an "even split", but I assure you, it wont be by applying an employment quota.
Can I ask you das uber, why do you think JQ would want to discriminate against male pilots? What do you think would be the motivation?
Can I ask you das uber, why do you think JQ would want to discriminate against male pilots? What do you think would be the motivation?
Das uber,
You call people muppets and then want them to provide the links for you.
No, I want you to provide this brand new thing called evidence. So far you've provided none and expect empty assertion to pass for argument. That's not how it works.
I suggest you actually read the 149 page 2010 Act instead of just downloading the 2 page fact sheet.
I have. Have you? Because if you had, you'd recognize that the 2nd quoted paragraph was the relevant section of the act itself, not something from a fact sheet.
I am well aware of employment law in Victoria and again, JQ will not be applying quotas.
Ah, the list of logical fallacies grows. This is one of my favorites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion
"What are they actually doing? What evidence do you have for it?"
And i may have answered this before? I dont know what they are doing. Its not my company and not my business. All I know is what is published in the article:
Let me translate that for everyone here; "No, I don't have any evidence. But let me try to phrase it in such a way so that it doesn't sound so bad."
".....aim for an even split....." and "an explanation must be provided" and "striving for better diversity".
Maybe they have started an ad campaign to convince girls considering the industry that it is totally possible. Maybe they are holding aviation forums at girls schools.
Maybe they're building a rocket to take us to Mars too.
Its up to JQ as to how they achieve an "even split", but I assure you, it wont be by applying an employment quota.
Assure me based on what evidence?
Can I ask you das uber, why do you think JQ would want to discriminate against male pilots? What do you think would be the motivation?
The real question, the better question, is why did you ask this when the answer is so obvious? The reason is you're trying to pivot the debate away from that of the legality of the discriminatory practices of Jetstar, an argument you're rapidly losing (some say lost), into an inevitably circular and pointless argument about the motivations of the company, which isn't relevant and isn't something I'm interested in being caught up in.
You call people muppets and then want them to provide the links for you.
No, I want you to provide this brand new thing called evidence. So far you've provided none and expect empty assertion to pass for argument. That's not how it works.
I suggest you actually read the 149 page 2010 Act instead of just downloading the 2 page fact sheet.
I have. Have you? Because if you had, you'd recognize that the 2nd quoted paragraph was the relevant section of the act itself, not something from a fact sheet.
I am well aware of employment law in Victoria and again, JQ will not be applying quotas.
Ah, the list of logical fallacies grows. This is one of my favorites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion
"What are they actually doing? What evidence do you have for it?"
And i may have answered this before? I dont know what they are doing. Its not my company and not my business. All I know is what is published in the article:
Let me translate that for everyone here; "No, I don't have any evidence. But let me try to phrase it in such a way so that it doesn't sound so bad."
".....aim for an even split....." and "an explanation must be provided" and "striving for better diversity".
Maybe they have started an ad campaign to convince girls considering the industry that it is totally possible. Maybe they are holding aviation forums at girls schools.
Maybe they're building a rocket to take us to Mars too.
Its up to JQ as to how they achieve an "even split", but I assure you, it wont be by applying an employment quota.
Assure me based on what evidence?
Can I ask you das uber, why do you think JQ would want to discriminate against male pilots? What do you think would be the motivation?
The real question, the better question, is why did you ask this when the answer is so obvious? The reason is you're trying to pivot the debate away from that of the legality of the discriminatory practices of Jetstar, an argument you're rapidly losing (some say lost), into an inevitably circular and pointless argument about the motivations of the company, which isn't relevant and isn't something I'm interested in being caught up in.
Is J*'s stated aim illegal? It isn't.
Why? Because I've shown you specific legislation that enables it. When challenged, you have failed entirely to provide evidence otherwise.
This is why I call people muppets.
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What about hiring the Indigenous Female? That ticks 2 boxes and they can get on with the job..
When does this BS come to an end?
Pushing every selection to a "gender problem" does not help anything.
Had a fight with my female boss a while ago and was blamed to not accept her as superior because of her gender. I give a damn on it, leadership incapability is leadership incapability and has nothing to do with gender (except for those who got their job only due to quota not talent).
Das Uber,
Kinda pointless going around in circles with your argument based largely on paranoia and siege mentality.
Best of luck, let me know if you find any reds under the bed.
Kinda pointless going around in circles with your argument based largely on paranoia and siege mentality.
Best of luck, let me know if you find any reds under the bed.