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RAAF VIP Fleet Renewal

Old 14th Feb 2016, 22:34
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My point was rally polies should insist we have trooping flights on first world mainline carriers.
As a further aside. Unless you re a nuclear power don't need secure coms for PM. It is a wank for PM to say they "need" secure coms 24/7.
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Old 14th Feb 2016, 23:05
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Unless you re a nuclear power don't need secure coms for PM. It is a wank for PM to say they "need" secure coms 24/7.
Yeah, he should just use twitter...
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Old 14th Feb 2016, 23:22
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My point was rally polies should insist we have trooping flights on first world mainline carriers
When Qantas has had excess capacity that's occurred. Of course, Qantas (or VOZ) doesn't ten have spare capacity hanging around for military charters so it's kind of a moot point.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 04:59
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RAAF is getting two G550 special mission aircraft, getting a few more with comfy seats would not be too much of a stretch.
Having said that Dassault has demo's 7X in CBR last year to the top brass.....

Either way we are going to end up paying a fortune for them.....
There was a 7X in Melbourne's skies today, so either the demos are ongoing, or there's some route-proving going on?
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 05:27
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Why do we have to transport this riff-raff
So that everyone in Australia actually gets to hear about what their PM is doing. Believe it or not but communication to the general populous is an important part of running the country.
Unless you re a nuclear power don't need secure coms for PM. It is a wank for PM to say they "need" secure coms 24/7.
WTF? Please tell me this is a sh!t stir?
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 09:50
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WTF It's not a shitstir.
I rmain unconvinced any of our PM's are vital to every important decision ofgovernment. We are a cabinet system, not a presidential system. As current PM has pointed out he is "first amoung equals".
I would be happy for the PM to delegate authority to make urgent decisions to the national security committee if he/she is not in coms for a few hours. What happens if PM gets ill, and has op - he would delegse to Cabinet led by deputy PM.
This thought that we must act like US and have constant comms with PM is nonsense in our situation.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 09:58
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Just because we do not have the same crap system as the US does not mean we have a powerless PM. The ability for those in charge to not only do their work while traveling and be in contact with their people in Australia and abroad (securely) is incredibly important.
I rmain unconvinced any of our PM's
Also we only have one PM.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 10:27
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The UK government, and PM, seems to be able to function without a dedicated long range VIP aircraft, and without secure coms on long trips.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 10:30
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Bluster and indignant one liners like that should be beneath you.
I haven't even started with those.
The PM and other high ranking political officers do indeed need secure communications and transport. With or without access to nuclear weapons they still have highly secure information that they may need to communicate en-route. That information, if intercepted, could result in the deaths of Australians, be they serving, clandestine, or civilian. This is not the same as transporting troops outside of warzones.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 10:51
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Believe it or not but communication to the general populous is an important part of running the country.
That would be Ok if we actually got news, not the that is a personal opinion or some snide remark that is dished up on a 24hr cycle by the so called press.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 10:54
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The UK government, and PM, seems to be able to function without a dedicated long range VIP aircraft, and without secure coms on long trips.
What's the saying? "Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're an idiot, than open your mouth and dispel all doubt..."
With respect, you appear to know very little of that which you pontificate...

Last edited by josephfeatherweight; 15th Feb 2016 at 11:17.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 11:12
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That would be Ok if we actually got news, not the that is a personal opinion or some snide remark that is dished up on a 24hr cycle by the so called press.
Well I can't argue with that.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 11:18
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Joseph
Sanctimonious misquoting is not something to be proud of, but you may get some satisfaction from it.
There is no decision for which the PM is vital or indispensable in th short term.as above,
I would be happy for him or her to delegate to National Security Committee or Cabinet any sudden need for an instant decision in the hours PM was out of coms.
It's called the Westminster System.
Look it up.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 11:29
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Satisfaction received! Get with the times...
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 12:32
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Hey Continueapproach737- What is "Renewel" ? Is it some Boeing term?
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 13:41
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Excuse my ignorance of clandestine and super-techy equipment......but with regards to secure comms.....I imagine that there are good quality portable devices that the ADF can acquire......or even semi-portable....that are secure.
Load that onto any long range jet and away we go!!!!



On the other hand.....

My understanding is that the ADF have two leased BBJ's....primarily one for the Governor General and one for the PM.

Why not acquire another BBJ and one 330??
It can then be co-ordinated who uses what a/c with regards to the length of the trip required.
Then you have long-range capability (A330) and shorter field capability (BBJ) covered.
Both can be maintained by Qantas.

The press will have a field day regardless of what aircraft you purchase...the politicians know this and will have speeches prepared to respond.

At the very least, they can play the card that QF will be maintaining them....therefore protecting jobs, workers etc etc etc.......

Just a thought......


Eternity.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 16:33
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They should have bought a 777/767/330/747 originally.

Aircraft that size will fly from Canberra to anywhere in the world non-stop with no need for crew positioning and various other logistics associated.
Really?

Maybe with half the fuselage as a fuel tank.
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Old 16th Feb 2016, 00:41
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I've been in the BBJ a few times in my previous life. The aircraft, then anyway, were very basic.

If you get the impression these aircraft had gold plated taps and spa baths think again. They were meant to be airborne offices and deliberately understated to keep the voter happy.

I agree with Keg. We send these aircraft overseas with the leaders of our country aboard. Regardless of your politics, I'd prefer to see that service provided by the RAAF in an aircraft designed for the purpose. I'd love to see the RAAF doing troop transports too rather than via the lowest bidder, but that's another issue.

Not only does a dedicated aircraft allow the ministers the opportunity to work in transit, it also gives them a certain status that commercial flights don't allow. In the wider world of politics, this status is actually worth something.

I reckon B789s would fit the bill nicely.
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Old 16th Feb 2016, 07:36
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Germany uses A340
Canada uses A310
Japan uses B777
France uses A330/340

The PM and others don't follow normal scheduled service routes on most occasions and with a cadre of others not to mention the peanut gallery (aka the press) they'd book half a scheduled service. Changing itineraries etc

Security is a big issue too
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Old 16th Feb 2016, 10:12
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Originally Posted by wishiwasupthere View Post
As a regular 'customer' previously of the current charter provider between the Middle East and Australia, i'm not really sure what your issue is rjtjrt? If you want lie flat beds and IFE, you're going on deployment, not holiday. Either way, beats a Herc or C17.
Or an Il-76 like we had on the way back from the MEAO in '03...
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