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Qantas 787 recruitment for cadetship

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Qantas 787 recruitment for cadetship

Old 7th Jan 2016, 00:39
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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I'm scratching my head about this recruitment for the 787. In the last EBA the company got effectively a B scale for 787 SOs. However by my reckoning a lot of promotion will open up to 747 and 380 SOs to go to probably the 737 and 330. This will mean they will have to put new pilots on the 747 or 380 at much more money than the 787 SOs. So, if I'm correct how are they going to allocate who to what aircraft? Anyone got some thoughts?
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 01:30
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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So Qantas is looking at record profits.... Last time they did that the gfc was just around the corner. Prior to that SARS was good at crippling promotion.
Looking at the markets today, well, is it possible for GFC MK II to be only a short time away?
That aside, I'm not sure why the euphoria surrounding the imminent(?) recruitment.
Qantas still has 200+ outside who will come back. The hurrah about the 787 amounts to 7-8 aircraft in the near term, till 2018. In that time Jumbos are supposedly going to wither. Alan Joyce has not ordered one new aircraft for qantas in his tenure. (Bonuses all round!) And yes qantas is desperate for capacity, however, this is not the silver bullet that people are suggesting.
Sure more 787s will come, but there either needs to be a dramatic shift in deliveries to increase the total fleet size or the status quo remains.
Joining within a year of Ansett's collapse, I don't have seniority for a long haul FO position. That's fine, domestic fo is cool, but realistically I don't see that changing for a long time, no matter how you want to cut it.
Twenty years to command....tell him he's dreaming.
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 05:36
  #63 (permalink)  
Keg

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Do we still have 200+ on LWOP? I haven't seen an update on that in a while.

The 744 retirement plan has been amended a few times since August last year when the 787s were announced to retire a number of the 744s. I'm not sure the current plan indicates the 744 withers quite in the time frame or numbers you suggest hotnhigh.
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 07:39
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Dragon: great question.

The 787 EBA is about lowering the opportunity to make over time.

The 787-9 and the 777-X if they get them, will do the long haul and ultra long haul flying, and you watch, the A380 and the last of the 747's will be re deployed to the Asian routes (medium to short haul) thereby nullifying all overtime.
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 08:34
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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So, if I'm correct how are they going to allocate who to what aircraft? Anyone got some thoughts?
Previous courses were just randomly assigned to whatever slots they needed on a specific type at the time. I don't think there is any specific criteria for assignment. From what I've heard they needed to start recruiting S/O's on the 747/330 several months ago.
I guess if they need 10 bodies to start on a day to crew whatever plane they'll pull the next ten out of the hat (or the hold pool). I don't think "I want to wait for a bigger aircraft" is going to elicit a positive response.
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 11:43
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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When the team at the top decides what planes they are going to fly on what routes I'd be amazed if they considered the overtime payments going to the 4 pilots.
If they feel they can fill 500 seats to a destination at a particular time of day then the 380 will fly it. They won't put a 250 seat aircraft on the route just to save a few thousand dollars.
Equally they won't stuff 500 seats into a market that can't support it or desires frequency rather than pure capacity (Asia) just to avoid overtime.
I think there are much bigger issues which determine which aircraft will fly where, than overtime. I doubt we are as important as we might think we are.

Regarding who gets allocated to which aircraft, in the past they have allocated new entrants on the same day based on how many hours they had on starting. I've seen them start crew a day early or late just so as to have them allocated to the aircraft they want if the hours wouldn't have achieved the desired outcome.
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 12:50
  #67 (permalink)  
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Yeah. We still didn't solve the day 1 lottery if we recruit some to the 330, the next month to the 380 and then the month after to the 787 followed by another 380 course.
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 18:47
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Who would have thought joining an airline was a lottery?
You'd be ecstatic just to get in! Wouldn't you?
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 21:07
  #69 (permalink)  
Keg

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Yes. But when someone junior to you is earning double what you are after 4 years you'd justified in feeling a tad let down.
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 23:07
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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EBA9 19.1.2
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Old 7th Jan 2016, 23:40
  #71 (permalink)  
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The practicalities of that when a S/O has been checked out for 6 months on the 787 and S/Os are required on the A380 is going to behold. It's got double training and inefficiency written all over it.
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Old 8th Jan 2016, 00:17
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Prior to recruitment from outside the group , open up to JQ , plenty of Airbus experience with training required to 330/380 , even 787 by the time the QF airframes arrive. Recruit into JQ and save the retraining. Additional required , off the street.
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Old 8th Jan 2016, 00:34
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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I'd love to see opportunities open up across the group.

Unfortunately pilot groups aren't that progressive. Management teams would prefer a new hire off the street verse the consequential training.
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Old 8th Jan 2016, 01:07
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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What about the MOU?
I'm no expert on that because it doesn't really affect me but I'd assume that the JQ guys could use it to come over?
It wouldn't be attractive to some but the more senior guys could use it to go over to QF if there was an attractive slot to take?
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Old 8th Jan 2016, 01:09
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Also I don't think QF thought it through enough but the award is still there and there is nothing that requires QF to put all new hires on the 787.
Word has it that they'll require SO's this year and they will go to existing types.
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Old 8th Jan 2016, 03:38
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Wingspar, the MOU is based on group seniority starting in 2004.

MOU seniority numbers in Qantas (~2004) are not senior enough for widebody FO, whereas all eligible JQ Pilots (former Impulse pilots, <2004) are Captains, mostly on the 787.

This 'one-sidedness' is purely a result of rapid expansion in one carrier, and stagnation in the other.
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Old 8th Jan 2016, 05:33
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Prior to recruitment from outside the group , open up to JQ , plenty of Airbus experience with training required to 330/380 , even 787 by the time the QF airframes arrive. Recruit into JQ and save the retraining. Additional required , off the street.

Thing is, S/O's only get a Co-Pilot, or now 'Cruise Pilot' (or some such), Rating.

In comparison to a Command endorsement the training is reduced somewhat, so it doesn't matter where you come from (i.e. 320 or 787 qualified), in most (no, probably all according to CAsA) instances you'd probably still be required to do the same training anyway.

Additionally, in any JQ to QF LWOP agreement (for clarification, thats LWOP NOT associated with the MOU) you'd still be joining at the bottom of the Seniority list (just like the QF S/O's did when they went across to JQ). If you want to come across, chuck in an application and have a crack. The end result is almost the same as what you are saying, only JQ entrants would have to resign rather than keep their seniority in JQ.

The only issue is that by the sounds of what ROH111 has posted, the rumour I posted earlier of a shortage on your side of the fence is not unfounded. Would there perhaps be a 'Gentlemens' agreement to prevent QF from giving you the nod and causing further red faces over there?
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Old 8th Jan 2016, 07:34
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot View Post
Thing is, S/O's only get a Co-Pilot, or now 'Cruise Pilot' (or some such), Rating.

In comparison to a Command endorsement the training is reduced somewhat, so it doesn't matter where you come from (i.e. 320 or 787 qualified), in most (no, probably all according to CAsA) instances you'd probably still be required to do the same training anyway
Yeah this is a certainty. A380 FOs getting RINd to SO last month also 'needed' training to check out...

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Old 8th Jan 2016, 07:39
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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It would have to be a "ladies agreement" given the current JQ Chief Pilot and head of QF recruiting are certainly not gentleman.....

I would encourage all group pilots to apply if they are interested.

A potential employer can't discriminate based on your previous employment. Ie, in this case, a suitably qualified and experienced pilot from JQ or Qlink has to be considered on the same merits as one from Rex or Alliance.
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Old 8th Jan 2016, 12:20
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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I'd be quite concerned if a QF group pilot didn't get into mainline.

After all, they are considered safe to fly multi million dollar aircraft in other parts of the group doing the same job.

Hopefully their previous service will count towards long service leave and staff travel
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