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AFAP not at the table in SAR Pilot Award ??

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AFAP not at the table in SAR Pilot Award ??

Old 20th Oct 2015, 19:52
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AFAP not at the table in SAR Pilot Award ??

An advertisment appeared on the AFAP web site recently looking for pilots to fly CL604 for Cobham on the new 12 year AMSAR contract. Pay & conditions were not settled when the advertisement was posted but have since been finalised in the Cobham SAR Services Aircrew Enterprise Agreement, 2015.

The Aircrew Enterprise Agreement is to cover the; Captain, Co-Pilot, Aircraft Mission Coordinator, Drop Master & Visual Observer.

The parties bound by the Agreement are the employer, the employees and the TWU, subject to an application. There is no mention of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots representing it's members in this tax payer funded contract.

GEORGE


New Age / New Speak Alert # 2
"By curtailing frivolous and "fighting" words, the Party seeks to narrow the range of thought altogether, such that eventually thoughtcrime will be literally impossible. The same goes for disruptive or subversive behaviour."

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...G2015_5900.pdf
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 13:07
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They are too busy trying to steal pilot membership from other Companies maybe!!

Good to see the TWU representing more pilots in EBAs. Their current National Coordinator is a smart guy.
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 13:50
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AFAP not at the table in SAR Pilot Award ??
The reason is in your location, Blair...
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Old 21st Oct 2015, 19:09
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Chadzat,

I suggest you read the document before you pat the TWU on the back.....
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 07:59
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AFAP wouldn't have negotiated such a poor agreement! They either weren't involved or left the table!

No wonder the TWU are one of the listed Unions at the royal commission into trade union corruption!

FMC.
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Old 22nd Oct 2015, 08:29
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The current situation with the guys and girls flying the 717 is one very good indication of what is to come when the TWU handles the enforcement your agreement. Good luck with that one
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 00:09
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Don't think they need to "steal" members . Their numbers speak for themselves. Having said that I'd say they'd be dwarfed by the truck working union. Did twu support/promote integration? Haven't kept up to date with what happened but I'd say it would come in handy given the recent events with the F50. Are VARA on the list or just the atr?
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 00:12
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Errr, I think you're talking about an entirely different airline there...
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 02:51
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AFAP wouldn't have negotiated such a poor agreement!
They either weren't involved or left the table!
Fair comment, I think, FMC.

Leads me to wonder, did the AFAP even know these 'negotiations' were on? Or did Cobham muddy the waters to get a favourable 'agreement' without talking to the pilot group (who haven't been selected yet) or even negotiating with the usual Pilot's industrial representative, the AFAP?

Where does this leave SAR Pilots, when they are eventually chosen? Do they have to join the TWU now for industrial representation, and does the TWU have anything to offer the pilots, since the TWU has no aviation technical expertise? Is AFAP membership of any use now to a pilot with an eye to these positions?

It's difficult to see a future employee ballot allow AFAP representation now; since, for the SAR Pilot positions, the employee group has been diluted & swamped by other categories, now called SAR Air Crew: (Captain, Co-Pilot, Aircraft Mission Coordinator, Drop Master & Visual Observer) making a ballot to allow the AFAP in the workplace problematic at best
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 03:03
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Isn't this a 'Green Fields' operation? Why would they need any Union to negotiate an agreement? They could simply write their own and present it to the pilots that they then employ.
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 03:21
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Whether they needed a union or not is immaterial. The fact they excluded the only union with any serious aviation contract acumen is. You know they are intimidated by you when they ignore you.
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 03:36
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The naivety in this industry amazes me. Do you know how many Aviation (Pilot and otherwise) agreements the TWU has been a party to and even negotiated single handedly over the past few decades Blitzkrieger? Find out and get back to us.

I can tell you that at one of the majors - the AFAP is only a party to 3 out of 15 agreements company wide and the TWU is party to 6 or 7 of those 15. Pretty experienced if you ask me.
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 04:19
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Hey Chadzat Smart Cookie your bloke in the Twuckies Union. $133K a year for a Capt? Maybe for a blue singlet type driving a 'B' double Darwin to Melbourne. Contract must have fallen short $ so the first thing they do is attack wages. Not the thousands of staff at head shed located at the City of Churches.
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Old 23rd Oct 2015, 05:56
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Chadzat, I am sorry to have offended you.

I used the term acumen for a reason. Being prilofic is fine, but being effective carries far more import.
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Old 24th Oct 2015, 01:03
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I've searched the FWC website and I'm not seeing a EA or similar. Could we be talking about a draft document here? In any case $133K will see low time, inexperienced Captains that will bring with them RISK to the operation. I hope AMSA will take particular attention to what Cobham are applying?
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Old 24th Oct 2015, 03:45
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Follow the link in the first post.
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Old 24th Oct 2015, 07:14
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Green fields

I stand to be corrected on any of this.....

rmcdonal
I suppose it depends how 'green fields' is defined. I don't think it's relevant, considering Cobhams is actively involved in a great deal of Australian aviation and has an on going relationship with the AFAP through its various workplace agreements. I followed the links from the AFAP web site, to Cobhams and on to the Be Found application page. The application for the SAR Pilot positions was titled SAPL (Surveillance Australia Party Limited) - which makes it difficult for me to see that there is not a relationship between Cobham SAR Services and Pilots through Cobhams and the AFAP. (BTW I didn't apply.)

If there is no relationship then Cobhams could
simply write their own (agreement) and present it to the pilots that they then employ
Normally this would be fine. When the pilots realised they were getting a shite deal, they could join the AFAP. With sufficient members in the Pilot workforce, the AFAP gets a toe-in and a seat at the next EBA. Not so in this case because the new agreement lumps Pilots together with the three crew down the back.
Pilots represent only two out of five Aircrew, just 40% of the workforce, so in a ballot they are unlikely to get the numbers required to force AFAP representation.

Looks like there will be a bunch of Piss Poorly Paid Pilots, totally under the thumb of Cobhams, with no prospect of IR support and industry expertise that the AFAP provides.
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Old 24th Oct 2015, 08:54
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Pilots represent only two out of five Aircrew, just 40% of the workforce, so in a ballot they are unlikely to get the numbers required to force AFAP representation.
They'd all better join the TWU then. They all work in/on transport, don't they?
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Old 24th Oct 2015, 08:54
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Pilots represent only two out of five Aircrew, just 40% of the workforce, so in a ballot they are unlikely to get the numbers required to force AFAP representation.
Why would the non pilot crew not support their pilot colleagues who suggest a better deal is possible FOR ALL by utilising the AFAP?

What do you think is a reasonable salary for pilots on that size aircraft flying maybe 250 hours a year?
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Old 24th Oct 2015, 09:53
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I might be mistaken but I thought any individual can nominate anyone else as their bargaining agent to represent them at negotiations.

It doesn't need a percentage or number as far as I am aware.
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