21 years since first AN B747-300 operation
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The incident and the report are an interesting study in Human Factors and also a good example of the realities of introducing a new compex type into a long standing fleet.
There were heaps of holes in many slices of cheese and they all lined up that day. However, in the end, no one was hurt and the aircraft suffered comparitively minor damage.
Wunwing
There were heaps of holes in many slices of cheese and they all lined up that day. However, in the end, no one was hurt and the aircraft suffered comparitively minor damage.
Wunwing
Yes, the PIC is still around! I was delighted to see him at the Antique Aircraft Assoc event at Echuca earlier this year (he has a beautifully restored Aero 145). Very fit and spry for his age.
"BJ" was enormously well-liked and respected in his Cathay days, and I had many enjoyable flights with him. What a very sad way to end your airline career...
"BJ" was enormously well-liked and respected in his Cathay days, and I had many enjoyable flights with him. What a very sad way to end your airline career...
Last edited by Dora-9; 3rd Sep 2015 at 21:11.
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Big Trev's baby. It was also a lesson in how not to add an aircraft to your AOC, especially when your plans are over ambitious and you have a timeframe of just a couple of months. Just can't be done, not successfully anyway.
I agree that human factors played a significant role, but you can't blame the pilots. Management were the problem with management putting unrealistic organisational pressure on everyone. It was a classic organisational mismanagemt stuff up because they had dollar signs in their eyes and wanted to cash in on Olympic revenue.
But they are good memories of a great airline filled with a lot of great people.
Do I miss her? Absolutely
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXQXmeqepo
I agree that human factors played a significant role, but you can't blame the pilots. Management were the problem with management putting unrealistic organisational pressure on everyone. It was a classic organisational mismanagemt stuff up because they had dollar signs in their eyes and wanted to cash in on Olympic revenue.
But they are good memories of a great airline filled with a lot of great people.
Do I miss her? Absolutely
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXQXmeqepo
I think you have your timelines mixed up P377. Big Trev didn't arrive until after the AN888 debacle. If anything it was Big Graham's baby and he wouldn't be told by anyone, particularly pilots, that he was rushing.
Thread Starter
It was AN881 that landed in SYD with the nose wheel retracted. VH-INH if I remember correctly. Also 6 years before the SYD Olympics P377. TJ joined AN in 1996.
TANUA-Your timeline is also incorrect. B772 thanks for the correction of the flight number. I knew it had lots of 8s in it as it is considered a lucky number in Asia.
With a gear horn blaring away at you perhaps a second set of eyes on the down lights would have been appropriate....It was a generous statement indeed.
Enlighten me - have you ever tried to see the gear indicator lights on the aft end of the FE's panel from the captain's seat?
As always, more to it. BJ said, " Have we got all greens"? Uncle Les thought he said, "Have we got four Greens"? The lights were clustered in a way that you could miss the fifth. They painted a little white line around the panel after that.
' Wandering Will' gave up flying years ago. He was also the F/O with that nasty engine failure and fire out of BNE on the 727. I liked him and found him to be a good operator but his confidence was hit after too many people, without the real story, were too critical. You are only remembered by your mishaps, not your achievements in this weird industry. Will was under training at the time and could hardly be expected to 'Ace it'. Unfortunate but the number 1 engine had a few important bits hanging off it. Les was a lovely bloke too and I think it was his first solo trip on the line.
' Wandering Will' gave up flying years ago. He was also the F/O with that nasty engine failure and fire out of BNE on the 727. I liked him and found him to be a good operator but his confidence was hit after too many people, without the real story, were too critical. You are only remembered by your mishaps, not your achievements in this weird industry. Will was under training at the time and could hardly be expected to 'Ace it'. Unfortunate but the number 1 engine had a few important bits hanging off it. Les was a lovely bloke too and I think it was his first solo trip on the line.
Last edited by By George; 7th Sep 2015 at 08:08.
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Consider the following:
A three engine approach followed by either a gear or flap failure is a well practiced simulator exercise, something an experienced 747 captain would have been exposed to on numerous occasions.
An experienced captain would also know that extension of the gear, using only the hydraulic ADP takes longer than when the EDP is operating.
Aircraft configuration abnormalities are best dealt with at altitude, and to go around is by far the safest option available when confronted by abnormal conditions, particularly during final approach.
It is the captain’s sole responsibility to support and supervise the actions of the F/E, particularly whilst carrying out abnormal/emergency check lists; otherwise he is left to operate autonomously, leaving both pilots out of the loop.
And yes, the gear lights on the F/Es panel can be viewed from the captain’s position; it just requires the F/E to position his seat accordingly.
So I think to say, that the pilots – and in particular the captain could not be blamed – was indeed a generous statement…
A three engine approach followed by either a gear or flap failure is a well practiced simulator exercise, something an experienced 747 captain would have been exposed to on numerous occasions.
An experienced captain would also know that extension of the gear, using only the hydraulic ADP takes longer than when the EDP is operating.
Aircraft configuration abnormalities are best dealt with at altitude, and to go around is by far the safest option available when confronted by abnormal conditions, particularly during final approach.
It is the captain’s sole responsibility to support and supervise the actions of the F/E, particularly whilst carrying out abnormal/emergency check lists; otherwise he is left to operate autonomously, leaving both pilots out of the loop.
And yes, the gear lights on the F/Es panel can be viewed from the captain’s position; it just requires the F/E to position his seat accordingly.
So I think to say, that the pilots – and in particular the captain could not be blamed – was indeed a generous statement…
Last edited by TrailBoss; 5th Sep 2015 at 09:09. Reason: No changes