Australian pilots can work for US regionals.
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Seagull, Happy to take your opinions on board however I do disagree with them, I have done extensive research and what you have posted doesn't really add up. A few points I agree with though re transferring to a legacy.
Where are you flying at the moment?
Copy your points but....... There is massive advantages of flying a turbo fan 25-40T AC in a tougher environment than banging around in a Dash 8 on one of the flattest and benign continents on earth.
Re the pay.....yep that's income (I disagree with your premise re the amount (go read the EBAs..****e)) however it doesn't take into account costs. COL in the USA is far cheaper when it comes to daily amenities ie: car, fuel, food, rent, govt charges. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index
I'm pretty convinced its a good gig and WILL be flipping over there in the next two to three months.
Bafanguy,
Good point about the PIC in the NE USA. I have put a lot of thought into that considering I have zip experience with that cold stuff. I have zero plans on pushing that line unless I am fully comfortable with how it all works!
Where are you flying at the moment?
Copy your points but....... There is massive advantages of flying a turbo fan 25-40T AC in a tougher environment than banging around in a Dash 8 on one of the flattest and benign continents on earth.
Re the pay.....yep that's income (I disagree with your premise re the amount (go read the EBAs..****e)) however it doesn't take into account costs. COL in the USA is far cheaper when it comes to daily amenities ie: car, fuel, food, rent, govt charges. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index
I'm pretty convinced its a good gig and WILL be flipping over there in the next two to three months.
Bafanguy,
Good point about the PIC in the NE USA. I have put a lot of thought into that considering I have zip experience with that cold stuff. I have zero plans on pushing that line unless I am fully comfortable with how it all works!
Last edited by Professional Amateur; 27th Jul 2018 at 22:57. Reason: Response to Bafanguy
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Seagull201,
You're right about several issues you listed.
The flying can be pretty intense particularly in the NE US in winter. Always cramming 10 lbs in a 5 lb can with winter just amplifying it all. I can't think of a better opportunity to get in trouble than KLGA or KDCA ( and many other airports) in winter. But, it's all good experience and a person should have a minimum of two of those under his belt before acting as PIC.
And, yes, they even send US citizens home if they can't cut the mustard.
I should hope that E3s will be upgraded when their turn comes and they've shown ability. The PIC time will look good on your CV.
As for moving beyond a regional as an E3, who knows what the Perfumed Princes of the Kackistocracy will do with immigration laws. But...as it stands now, a green card is required to make oneself eligible for an LCC or legacy carrier. And the competition for those spots is FIERCE and will continue to be forever. It's possible one could weave the Aussie magic on some of the local talent and marry into a green card. Then he'd be off the the races with a whole other slate of things to be frustrated about. Drop us a line when that happens and we'll provide that list.
You're right about several issues you listed.
The flying can be pretty intense particularly in the NE US in winter. Always cramming 10 lbs in a 5 lb can with winter just amplifying it all. I can't think of a better opportunity to get in trouble than KLGA or KDCA ( and many other airports) in winter. But, it's all good experience and a person should have a minimum of two of those under his belt before acting as PIC.
And, yes, they even send US citizens home if they can't cut the mustard.
I should hope that E3s will be upgraded when their turn comes and they've shown ability. The PIC time will look good on your CV.
As for moving beyond a regional as an E3, who knows what the Perfumed Princes of the Kackistocracy will do with immigration laws. But...as it stands now, a green card is required to make oneself eligible for an LCC or legacy carrier. And the competition for those spots is FIERCE and will continue to be forever. It's possible one could weave the Aussie magic on some of the local talent and marry into a green card. Then he'd be off the the races with a whole other slate of things to be frustrated about. Drop us a line when that happens and we'll provide that list.
To clarify better what i was getting at before.
Some of you guys should be more realistic about your info.
1. There's a website called "airline pilot central" or "airline central'', if a person clicks under the banner of regionals,
a list of the U.S regional airlines will show up, there are a good 20 or so, which operate regional jets.
Out of the 20 or so listed regionals, at the moment, ONLY less than 4, are ACTIVELY E3 visa holders, others don't do it.
(please note: if i write something in capitals, i'm not shouting, just highlighting. Thanks)
2. You guys there should be realistic, there is NO flow path to the U.S MAJORS or L.C.C airlines at the moment, for OZ pilots on E3s.
A person has to be a U.S national, resident or greencard holder.
How someone wants to sought out getting an eventual greencard, is for the individual to workout.
3. A first and second year F/O on any regional jet is on somewhere 37 to 40 dollars an hour, say up to 40K a year.
That's not enough income for a person to rent their own unit, pay utilities/bills, groceries, travel to the airport.
That's why i previously mentioned, a person should bring cash with them, they'll need it.
4. The U.S tax system is very close to the Australian system, there were jobs advertised for multi engine flight instructors in the U.S recently,
pay was 48K, i did the figures on the U.S tax calculators, it worked out to be $750 a week net or $3,000 a month in the pocket.
The unit which was offered for rent was at $1,500, so the other 1,500 or 375 per week would cover living expenses.
The 48K figure was a reasonable income AND you guys there, want to tell me your 40K a year as an F/O, is comfortable?
i'd say you would be pretty stretched on 40K a year.
A Captain on a regional jet there would be on 70 to 75K a year, that's about $1,150 a week net or $4,600 a month in the pocket.
That's a reasonable income to start living comfortably.
5. Any OZ pilot that's at a regional, will more than likely be upgraded to Captain, as their turn comes AND have their E3 continuously renewed,
every 2 years, there will be NO FURTHER progression into the majors or LCC, unless you're a greencard holder.
6. Bafanguy: Thanks for your post, you picked the parts that i was exactly getting at, you got the eyes of an eagle, whilst others are trying to see through it.
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Seagull,
Everything you say is correct and factual.
Yep, no Flow though to the LLCs etc.
Pay is pretty much bang on. BUT it doesn't include bonuses. The bonuses are handed out because the enterprise agreement allows for them to be handed out yet the agreements cant waiver from the base wage. (that's my understanding) IN some carriers there are yearly retention bonuses.
Yep on 45-50k it would be hard to eek out an existence. But, if you have a working partner.... it is do-able, esp considering the COL is cheaper.
You are also right about E3 regional numbers, to date I count six, being, Peidmont, Skywest, Commutair, PSA, Transstates and go Jet. You are absolutely right... check out Airline pilots Central.
Again, where are you flying? I only ask as it provides context to your opinion.
So, I agree with your facts but not your conclusions.
Everything you say is correct and factual.
Yep, no Flow though to the LLCs etc.
Pay is pretty much bang on. BUT it doesn't include bonuses. The bonuses are handed out because the enterprise agreement allows for them to be handed out yet the agreements cant waiver from the base wage. (that's my understanding) IN some carriers there are yearly retention bonuses.
Yep on 45-50k it would be hard to eek out an existence. But, if you have a working partner.... it is do-able, esp considering the COL is cheaper.
You are also right about E3 regional numbers, to date I count six, being, Peidmont, Skywest, Commutair, PSA, Transstates and go Jet. You are absolutely right... check out Airline pilots Central.
Again, where are you flying? I only ask as it provides context to your opinion.
So, I agree with your facts but not your conclusions.
Last edited by Professional Amateur; 27th Jul 2018 at 23:56. Reason: spelling etc
To clarify better what i was getting at before.
Some of you guys should be more realistic about your info.
1. There's a website called "airline pilot central" or "airline central'', if a person clicks under the banner of regionals,
a list of the U.S regional airlines will show up, there are a good 20 or so, which operate regional jets.
Out of the 20 or so listed regionals, at the moment, ONLY less than 4, are ACTIVELY E3 visa holders, others don't do it.
(please note: if i write something in capitals, i'm not shouting, just highlighting. Thanks)
2. You guys there should be realistic, there is NO flow path to the U.S MAJORS or L.C.C airlines at the moment, for OZ pilots on E3s.
A person has to be a U.S national, resident or greencard holder.
How someone wants to sought out getting an eventual greencard, is for the individual to workout.
3. A first and second year F/O on any regional jet is on somewhere 37 to 40 dollars an hour, say up to 40K a year.
That's not enough income for a person to rent their own unit, pay utilities/bills, groceries, travel to the airport.
That's why i previously mentioned, a person should bring cash with them, they'll need it.
4. The U.S tax system is very close to the Australian system, there were jobs advertised for multi engine flight instructors in the U.S recently,
pay was 48K, i did the figures on the U.S tax calculators, it worked out to be $750 a week net or $3,000 a month in the pocket.
The unit which was offered for rent was at $1,500, so the other 1,500 or 375 per week would cover living expenses.
The 48K figure was a reasonable income AND you guys there, want to tell me your 40K a year as an F/O, is comfortable?
i'd say you would be pretty stretched on 40K a year.
A Captain on a regional jet there would be on 70 to 75K a year, that's about $1,150 a week net or $4,600 a month in the pocket.
That's a reasonable income to start living comfortably.
5. Any OZ pilot that's at a regional, will more than likely be upgraded to Captain, as their turn comes AND have their E3 continuously renewed,
every 2 years, there will be NO FURTHER progression into the majors or LCC, unless you're a greencard holder.
6. Bafanguy: Thanks for your post, you picked the parts that i was exactly getting at, you got the eyes of an eagle, whilst others are trying to see through it.
Some of you guys should be more realistic about your info.
1. There's a website called "airline pilot central" or "airline central'', if a person clicks under the banner of regionals,
a list of the U.S regional airlines will show up, there are a good 20 or so, which operate regional jets.
Out of the 20 or so listed regionals, at the moment, ONLY less than 4, are ACTIVELY E3 visa holders, others don't do it.
(please note: if i write something in capitals, i'm not shouting, just highlighting. Thanks)
2. You guys there should be realistic, there is NO flow path to the U.S MAJORS or L.C.C airlines at the moment, for OZ pilots on E3s.
A person has to be a U.S national, resident or greencard holder.
How someone wants to sought out getting an eventual greencard, is for the individual to workout.
3. A first and second year F/O on any regional jet is on somewhere 37 to 40 dollars an hour, say up to 40K a year.
That's not enough income for a person to rent their own unit, pay utilities/bills, groceries, travel to the airport.
That's why i previously mentioned, a person should bring cash with them, they'll need it.
4. The U.S tax system is very close to the Australian system, there were jobs advertised for multi engine flight instructors in the U.S recently,
pay was 48K, i did the figures on the U.S tax calculators, it worked out to be $750 a week net or $3,000 a month in the pocket.
The unit which was offered for rent was at $1,500, so the other 1,500 or 375 per week would cover living expenses.
The 48K figure was a reasonable income AND you guys there, want to tell me your 40K a year as an F/O, is comfortable?
i'd say you would be pretty stretched on 40K a year.
A Captain on a regional jet there would be on 70 to 75K a year, that's about $1,150 a week net or $4,600 a month in the pocket.
That's a reasonable income to start living comfortably.
5. Any OZ pilot that's at a regional, will more than likely be upgraded to Captain, as their turn comes AND have their E3 continuously renewed,
every 2 years, there will be NO FURTHER progression into the majors or LCC, unless you're a greencard holder.
6. Bafanguy: Thanks for your post, you picked the parts that i was exactly getting at, you got the eyes of an eagle, whilst others are trying to see through it.
ummmm okkkay.
i earned 85k year one as a regional FO by hustling g and picking up as much OT as possible as well as bidding schedule conflicts and trading into sequences with check airman that I got displaced off but pay protected for.
I upgraded at 15 months with the company (flew 1000 hours in 12 months after getting checked to line).
Took a few months to get through CA training due to backlogs and a new LOA requiring 50 hours IOE before being released to the line in the left seat. So I’ll be on the line as a CA all said at roughly 20 months ish with the company.
I am recieving CA pay rates from when I was awarded the upgrade 2 months or so prior to going to upgrade training.
year two for me as a mixture of FO and CA rates will be approx 100k +
3rd year CA will be in the 110-120k ish range. Perhaps 130-135 if I do the check airman thing immediately at 6 months after upgrade.
check airman are making about 150k +
If all you are doing is gleaning your information from the APC forum then you really have no idea how the system works over here and how we credit hours for pay under the various contracts. only the dumb pilot make minimum guarantee.
And for info any of the Aussies on that joined Piedmont on an E3 will flow to mainline AA when their number comes up in 3-4 years from now. There’s nothing in their contract preventing them from flowing and mainline has concurred, the unions also support it. So good luck for those guys that took the punt. Also a good point to note is any Aussie joining Piedmont now still can flow to mainline AA as the contracts have not changed, except that the time to flown is getting exponentially worse as the queue is getting longer there.
as for me, I’m with Envoy NE USA based (albeit on a green card) and have about no more than 3 years left from now before I flow to mainline AA unless something better comes along in the meantime.
All this with the cost of living being wayyy cheaper over here. Short of trying to live in downtown new
york or SFO, your many goes a lot further than in Aus.
so you really have no grasp on the reality over here except for some back of the napkin calculations.
Last edited by havick; 28th Jul 2018 at 00:09.
"Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3."
This is true
... but for the love of god, DO NOT try for the green card lottery while you are in the US on an E3 Visa unless you are very certain what you are doing and possibly have even seen an immigration lawyer. This can (in many cases) be viewed as showing intent to remain in the US and a direct contradiction to the requirements of an E3 visa. Do some research and you will find more than a few cases of people being sent home/denied renewals based on this. Some who have even been successful in the green card lottery have then lost both E3 and GC and were sent home. And yep, I have spoken to an immigration lawyer about this.
This is true
... but for the love of god, DO NOT try for the green card lottery while you are in the US on an E3 Visa unless you are very certain what you are doing and possibly have even seen an immigration lawyer. This can (in many cases) be viewed as showing intent to remain in the US and a direct contradiction to the requirements of an E3 visa. Do some research and you will find more than a few cases of people being sent home/denied renewals based on this. Some who have even been successful in the green card lottery have then lost both E3 and GC and were sent home. And yep, I have spoken to an immigration lawyer about this.
Several of us in the US that left Aussie ‘majors’ to fly here. Less complicated system (more user friendly), more buying power on average and from all reports greater soft pay (work rules). Seniority for bidding and the ability to pick up/drop trips and change your schedule are also strong pluses. Don’t even get me started on the differences between management culture of Flight Data Monitoring vs FOQA; most Aussie skippers were terrified of it, here it’s a non issue and practically really changes the enjoyment factor of the job when you’re free to click everything off and hand fly.
Can anyone accurately answer what a QLINK, Cobham and Rex FO and CA make on average?
additionally, how long from joining to upgraded to CA, and how likely is it to get a check airman position after upgrading and what’s the timeframe and pay increase associated with that?
There’s quite a few Aussies here bashing going to the US, but none have opened up about what Aussies are earning doing the same job. I’ve asked a few times but everyone has avoided answering the question.
additionally, how long from joining to upgraded to CA, and how likely is it to get a check airman position after upgrading and what’s the timeframe and pay increase associated with that?
There’s quite a few Aussies here bashing going to the US, but none have opened up about what Aussies are earning doing the same job. I’ve asked a few times but everyone has avoided answering the question.
"Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3."
This is true ... but for the love of god, DO NOT try for the green card lottery while you are in the US on an E3 Visa unless you are very certain what you are doing and possibly have even seen an immigration lawyer. This can (in many cases) be viewed as showing intent to remain in the US and a direct contradiction to the requirements of an E3 visa. Do some research and you will find more than a few cases of people being sent home/denied renewals based on this. Some who have even been successful in the green card lottery have then lost both E3 and GC and were sent home. And yep, I have spoken to an immigration lawyer about this.
This is true
... but for the love of god, DO NOT try for the green card lottery while you are in the US on an E3 Visa unless you are very certain what you are doing and possibly have even seen an immigration lawyer. This can (in many cases) be viewed as showing intent to remain in the US and a direct contradiction to the requirements of an E3 visa. Do some research and you will find more than a few cases of people being sent home/denied renewals based on this. Some who have even been successful in the green card lottery have then lost both E3 and GC and were sent home. And yep, I have spoken to an immigration lawyer about this.There are many ways to mess it up after you have been selected, and it has been incredibly stressful at some points. You can't leave the country after you submit an adjustment of status, or you will be considered to have abandoned your application and won't have a visa class to fall back on. If you leave with advanced parole and return, only to have the green card denied, then that is a legit way to prematurely lose your E3.
A mere entry in the green card lottery will not hurt. I know many who have entered, failed, and renewed their E3 with no issues. You can make a more educated decision after you get selected. It is not illegal or dodgy in any way to be on an E3 and get a green card from the lottery. If it was, it would be impossible and there wouldn't have been many Australians before me who have changed over successfully.
Research? Where? How? I don't think I have heard of anyone having their E3 prematurely revoked for applying for the lottery, also haven't heard of anyone being rejected a renewal for applying for the lottery but missing out. I'd love to see your sources.
There are many ways to mess it up after you have been selected, and it has been incredibly stressful at some points. You can't leave the country after you submit an adjustment of status, or you will be considered to have abandoned your application and won't have a visa class to fall back on. If you leave with advanced parole and return, only to have the green card denied, then that is a legit way to prematurely lose your E3.
A mere entry in the green card lottery will not hurt. I know many who have entered, failed, and renewed their E3 with no issues. You can make a more educated decision after you get selected. It is not illegal or dodgy in any way to be on an E3 and get a green card from the lottery. If it was, it would be impossible and there wouldn't have been many Australians before me who have changed over successfully.
There are many ways to mess it up after you have been selected, and it has been incredibly stressful at some points. You can't leave the country after you submit an adjustment of status, or you will be considered to have abandoned your application and won't have a visa class to fall back on. If you leave with advanced parole and return, only to have the green card denied, then that is a legit way to prematurely lose your E3.
A mere entry in the green card lottery will not hurt. I know many who have entered, failed, and renewed their E3 with no issues. You can make a more educated decision after you get selected. It is not illegal or dodgy in any way to be on an E3 and get a green card from the lottery. If it was, it would be impossible and there wouldn't have been many Australians before me who have changed over successfully.
Ultimately, a win in the green card lottery is just a ticket to "apply" for the green card itself. In no way is it a done deal that you will receive one. Hence why they always draw more than the allocated allotment of green cards ... because a lot of applications will be rejected.
Anyone can "apply" for the lottery however you still need to meet prerequisites after "winning". From what I've heard/read, a long, drawn out process once you do win, and this was a few years before the Dotard was in charge. Who knows what its like now.
And as you mention, the E3 is not a dual intent visa. Part of the application for the E3 requires you to show ties back to Australia, and evidence you will eventually return there. It's a pretty big risk to expect to transfer across to a green card from an E3, although it can has been done.
Ultimately, a win in the green card lottery is just a ticket to "apply" for the green card itself. In no way is it a done deal that you will receive one. Hence why they always draw more than the allocated allotment of green cards ... because a lot of applications will be rejected.
Anyone can "apply" for the lottery however you still need to meet prerequisites after "winning". From what I've heard/read, a long, drawn out process once you do win, and this was a few years before the Dotard was in charge. Who knows what its like now.
It's a pretty big risk to expect to transfer across to a green card from an E3, although it can has been done.
The real risks are, if you win and begin the process, then they run out of visas or you for some reason get denied a green card, you will revert back to your E3 status. Having shown immigrant intent, you are unlikely to be given a renewal, as the E3 is nonimmigrant.
Once you apply to adjust status you can't leave the country, so no Canada or Mexico flying. You need to wait for the issuance of the green card before you can travel again or else they will consider your application abandoned. If you need to travel, you can apply for a document that lets you do it, but that will essentially cancel your E3. If you are unsuccessful in the green card, then you'll have to go home.
I decided that the risks were worth it because the USA is an amazing opportunity, winning the lottery is huge and I'm in a position where they will not run out of visas before I am processed.
Can anyone accurately answer what a QLINK, Cobham and Rex FO and CA make on average?
additionally, how long from joining to upgraded to CA, and how likely is it to get a check airman position after upgrading and what’s the timeframe and pay increase associated with that?
There’s quite a few Aussies here bashing going to the US, but none have opened up about what Aussies are earning doing the same job. I’ve asked a few times but everyone has avoided answering the question.
additionally, how long from joining to upgraded to CA, and how likely is it to get a check airman position after upgrading and what’s the timeframe and pay increase associated with that?
There’s quite a few Aussies here bashing going to the US, but none have opened up about what Aussies are earning doing the same job. I’ve asked a few times but everyone has avoided answering the question.
Also - https://www.fwc.gov.au/search/docume...relevance+DESC
There is a thread on here on Aussie wages.
Also - https://www.fwc.gov.au/search/docume...relevance+DESC
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The definition of “specialty occupation” is one that requires:
- A theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge; and
- The attainment of a bachelor’s or higher degree in the specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States.
First page of the E3 VISA requirements, doubt many would qualify.
- A theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge; and
- The attainment of a bachelor’s or higher degree in the specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States.
First page of the E3 VISA requirements, doubt many would qualify.
An ATPL is considered ''equivalent''.
As someone who has lived in both the US and OZ, working for what some might term “top of the list” airlines, I’d just like to add the following.....
Firstly, regardless of what some online calculator tells you, the taxes are less in the US and almost everything you need or have to spend your salary on, each month, costs less than it would in Australia. Do not make the mistake of comparing AU$ to US$. It’s only a small part of the equation.
Secondly, do not underestimate the collective resistance to anyone other than a US citizen or Green Card holder, ever being employed by a legacy airline. My personal feeling is that it might happen if hell freezes over first. In other words..never.
Firstly, regardless of what some online calculator tells you, the taxes are less in the US and almost everything you need or have to spend your salary on, each month, costs less than it would in Australia. Do not make the mistake of comparing AU$ to US$. It’s only a small part of the equation.
Secondly, do not underestimate the collective resistance to anyone other than a US citizen or Green Card holder, ever being employed by a legacy airline. My personal feeling is that it might happen if hell freezes over first. In other words..never.
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South African with FAA ATP
Feeling decidedly unwanted here on the southern tip of the continent, I am more than keen to relocate even at the advanced age of 61. South African and FAA ATP, 5500 hours (ran a desk for many years,) and typed on a few business jets, - Hawker, Lear, Gulfstream, Challenger Citation. What are the chances of a Part 91 position in the US with regards to an E3 visa, if anyone can advise I would appreciate it!
More that happy to handle flight ops and maintenance management inside of the position.
More that happy to handle flight ops and maintenance management inside of the position.
They get paid according to the EBA, so what guys are earning and their EBA should be the same thing no? A Cobham Regional (146) Capt might get around 180k on an outdated EBA with a couple of years back pay owing when the latest gets approved. Very little overtime or allowances there, generally flying around 50 hours / month.
