Australian pilots can work for US regionals.
Yep, the same thought crossed my mind. I don't see the E3s being much of a market influence in the Big Picture.
Another random thought: No one knows how long the E3 deal will serve the Aussies willing to take a run at it. I don't see the government cancelling it but rather question how long those carriers accepting E3s will continue to do so.
Those who are considering it might want to pull the trigger where ever they can, just in the interest of caution. Get up here and get ya some of this while the gettin's good before something changes.
Just a thought. My crystal ball is in the repair shop so I'm just guessing.
pilotchute,
Yep, the same thought crossed my mind. I don't see the E3s being much of a market influence in the Big Picture.
Another random thought: No one knows how long the E3 deal will serve the Aussies willing to take a run at it. I don't see the government cancelling it but rather question how long those carriers accepting E3s will continue to do so.
Those who are considering it might want to pull the trigger where ever they can, just in the interest of caution. Get up here and get ya some of this while the gettin's good before something changes.
Just a thought. My crystal ball is in the repair shop so I'm just guessing.
Yep, the same thought crossed my mind. I don't see the E3s being much of a market influence in the Big Picture.
Another random thought: No one knows how long the E3 deal will serve the Aussies willing to take a run at it. I don't see the government cancelling it but rather question how long those carriers accepting E3s will continue to do so.
Those who are considering it might want to pull the trigger where ever they can, just in the interest of caution. Get up here and get ya some of this while the gettin's good before something changes.
Just a thought. My crystal ball is in the repair shop so I'm just guessing.
^^^^^This exactly.
There is no downside at all for an Aussie doing an E3. Put things in perspective, you will do 18-24 months as an FO to build up your 1000 hours part 121 required for upgrade (includes moving, Indoc initial training). Then another 2 years as a captain.
After 3-4 years you will walk away with 1000FO hours jet and 1500-2000 hours PIC jet in an airline. If you go with Piedmont as it stands right now there is a high chance you will flow through to mainline AA. There’s nothing to say you can’t also just stay in the US on an E3 as a check airman at s regional and still earn reasonable money.
If you had stayed in Australia you’ll still probably be flying around in some ****ty turboprop still sniffing for a call to qantas, virgin, tiger etc
Going to the US on an E3 is the new ‘just goto darwin or PNG’ that was 20-30 years ago.
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Duxnutz,
I could have agreed with you 2 years ago when regional pay was $20 an hour but some regionals pay nearly $50 an hour now. If they don't they will soon.
I'm pretty sure all the pilots that would have come out of the woodwork have already appeared.
The major Airlines in the USA are literally stripping hundreds of pilots a month from the regionals. FedEx and UPS are also hiring like crazy.
I could have agreed with you 2 years ago when regional pay was $20 an hour but some regionals pay nearly $50 an hour now. If they don't they will soon.
I'm pretty sure all the pilots that would have come out of the woodwork have already appeared.
The major Airlines in the USA are literally stripping hundreds of pilots a month from the regionals. FedEx and UPS are also hiring like crazy.
Two Responses to this.
1) It isn't how many are here right now, it's how many will this grow into.
2) It's a matter of degree, not a binary situation, in that there's some defined number, below which will not affect the market pressures on terms and conditions, and above which will. Any number of participants will serve to some degree to ease the pressures on improvements. Obviously 100 pilots has less of an effect than 5,000 would, but it's misguided to say that there's no effect.
The only reason you have regionals in the USA is to fly routes for the majors under contract. That is the only reason most regionals exist. They also don't fly the same equipment either.
It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.
See the problem?
It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.
See the problem?
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The only reason you have regionals in the USA is to fly routes for the majors under contract. That is the only reason most regionals exist. They also don't fly the same equipment either.
It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.
See the problem?
It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.
See the problem?
As a side note, are you seriously suggesting that Denver Chicago doesn't have enough traffic for a 180 seat airplane? Really?
...there are plenty of captains at plenty of regional airlines who would be more then happy to retain their seniority, and not move, or have to commute, if the pay scale and work rules were better. Not "same as a major airline" better but enough better that the disparity was not so wide that they were willing dive to the bottom of a much larger seniority list, move to a different city, go back to the right seat (probably for a long time) all to gain the better pay and working conditions.
I agree.
While I don’t have complete seniority data from all the regionals there are undoubtedly many folks who’d be quite happy with a career at the regional level if things like pay/retirement/etc were better. A good lifestyle is a good lifestyle regardless of the airplane one flies.
However, in the current environment and organization of the major-regional relationship, the regionals are in a precarious position that may or may not be a suitable choice long term regardless of the pay structure.
As a mere example, the only seniority list I’ve seen in its entirety is the post-integration ASA-XJT list. The top third of that list had been there 15 years or more.
I frequently see these folks called “lifers”.
I’m not much on political correctness but the use of that term has a distinct pejorative ring to it: loser is the message. I’m not willing to disparage the career circumstances of hundreds if not thousands of people about whom I know nothing. What I do know is the profession is heavily driven by cyclical influences beyond the individual’s control…and mainline airline hiring mindset is nothing but erratic. We all have personal knowledge of mainline’s quixotic, whimsical behavior; they can just leave a great candidate in the dust by no fault of his own (and hire a bozo instead).
A regional career should be a viable option but at the moment, it’s a riskier choice than mainline…and that’s unfortunate.
Last edited by bafanguy; 31st Mar 2018 at 21:01.
The only reason you have regionals in the USA is to fly routes for the majors under contract. That is the only reason most regionals exist. They also don't fly the same equipment either.
It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.
See the problem?
It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.
See the problem?
I don’t discourage any of you from coming over here, I did the same nearly two decades ago. Things are definitely brighter industry wise than in years hence.
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No not the case, a 457 Visa in Australia automatically gave you the ability to apply for residency and then citizenship. The E3 in the US does not, it is simply a work visa and doesn’t have any built in automatic milestones and ability to apply for residency/citizenship.
The only way to get a green card from an E3 is either to marry a US citizen or have a company sponsor you. For a company to sponsor you they have to jump through a lot of hoops and expense. It’s not impossible to get a company to sponsor you but it’s not as easy to find one that will as the poster above suggests.
The only way to get a green card from an E3 is either to marry a US citizen or have a company sponsor you. For a company to sponsor you they have to jump through a lot of hoops and expense. It’s not impossible to get a company to sponsor you but it’s not as easy to find one that will as the poster above suggests.
Being on an E3 does not mean the company is not allowed to sponsor you, just means its a 2 year renewable vis indefinitely providing you have a job.
If you can show you will commit to your company most will be quite happy to do it as the costs are only between US$3k - $5k for lawyers and paper work filing. Not a big deal really if you think about it.
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[QUOTE=bafanguy;10103426]pilotchute,
Yep, the same thought crossed my mind. I don't see the E3s being much of a market influence in the Big Picture.
Another random thought: No one knows how long the E3 deal will serve the Aussies willing to take a run at it. I don't see the government cancelling it but rather question how long those carriers accepting E3s will continue to do so.
Those who are considering it might want to pull the trigger where ever they can, just in the interest of caution. Get up here and get ya some of this while the gettin's good before something changes.
Just a thought. My crystal ball is in the repair shop so I'm just guessing.[/QUOTE[B]/B]
Well the E3 visa is not just for Aussies. Its for Americans as well. It is different in that Howard and Bush signed the AUSFTA (Australia/US free trade agreement) in 2005 I think, not sure on dates.
The point is the 10k visas a year apply for Aussies to work in the US and Americans in Australia so the chances of this visa being revoked are slim to none.
Its a 2 way street so to speak so should keep Trump happy and works very well to be honest.
Yep, the same thought crossed my mind. I don't see the E3s being much of a market influence in the Big Picture.
Another random thought: No one knows how long the E3 deal will serve the Aussies willing to take a run at it. I don't see the government cancelling it but rather question how long those carriers accepting E3s will continue to do so.
Those who are considering it might want to pull the trigger where ever they can, just in the interest of caution. Get up here and get ya some of this while the gettin's good before something changes.
Just a thought. My crystal ball is in the repair shop so I'm just guessing.
[/QUOTE[B]/B]Well the E3 visa is not just for Aussies. Its for Americans as well. It is different in that Howard and Bush signed the AUSFTA (Australia/US free trade agreement) in 2005 I think, not sure on dates.
The point is the 10k visas a year apply for Aussies to work in the US and Americans in Australia so the chances of this visa being revoked are slim to none.
Its a 2 way street so to speak so should keep Trump happy and works very well to be honest.
Correct. The E3 does not lead to an automatic green card application but there is nothing preventing an E3 Visa holder being sponsored by their company for a green card like I was.
Being on an E3 does not mean the company is not allowed to sponsor you, just means its a 2 year renewable vis indefinitely providing you have a job.
If you can show you will commit to your company most will be quite happy to do it as the costs are only between US$3k - $5k for lawyers and paper work filing. Not a big deal really if you think about it.
Being on an E3 does not mean the company is not allowed to sponsor you, just means its a 2 year renewable vis indefinitely providing you have a job.
If you can show you will commit to your company most will be quite happy to do it as the costs are only between US$3k - $5k for lawyers and paper work filing. Not a big deal really if you think about it.
That’s great it’s worked out for you.
The point is that the E3 is not an immigrant visa and isn’t automatically afforded a green card/residency. You must be sponsored going through a whole different visa process.
Perhaps you can post which company you are working for so other potential Aussie E3 applicants can target the right place to lead to residency.
I'm not expecting the government to cancel the E3 program.
The "market" is another animal. When/if the market decides it no longer needs E3 applicants (or needs far fewer of them), the door will close, limiting the available slots. Those interested in this deal won't want to be on the wrong side of that door.
havick will confirm or correct my recollection but I think he said Envoy took E3s at one time but now no longer does ? If so, that's just an example.
Just thinking out loud here. I have no inside knowledge but do know the pilot market is a fickle thing.
Luggage,
I'm not expecting the government to cancel the E3 program.
The "market" is another animal. When/if the market decides it no longer needs E3 applicants (or needs far fewer of them), the door will close, limiting the available slots. Those interested in this deal won't want to be on the wrong side of that door.
havick will confirm or correct my recollection but I think he said Envoy took E3s at one time but now no longer does ? If so, that's just an example.
Just thinking out loud here. I have no inside knowledge but do know the pilot market is a fickle thing.
I'm not expecting the government to cancel the E3 program.
The "market" is another animal. When/if the market decides it no longer needs E3 applicants (or needs far fewer of them), the door will close, limiting the available slots. Those interested in this deal won't want to be on the wrong side of that door.
havick will confirm or correct my recollection but I think he said Envoy took E3s at one time but now no longer does ? If so, that's just an example.
Just thinking out loud here. I have no inside knowledge but do know the pilot market is a fickle thing.
havick,
Thanks for correcting my faulty recollection. Too bad about Envoy not taking E3s...I hate to see a guy deprived of a good capitalist opportunity.
What got me pondering this E3 vs market situation was hearing that Endeavor and Compass have classes scheduled almost to the end of this year (AFAIK, neither publicly, officially admits taking E3s). I wondered if perhaps the regional industry was slowly catching up to its manpower needs. Hard to say...
[True enough that scheduling classes isn't the same as getting all the scheduled butts in class]
But with all the attention the "worldwide pilot shortage" is getting, it may move more US nationals to take a run at the career.
We'll have to stay tuned.
Thanks for correcting my faulty recollection. Too bad about Envoy not taking E3s...I hate to see a guy deprived of a good capitalist opportunity.
What got me pondering this E3 vs market situation was hearing that Endeavor and Compass have classes scheduled almost to the end of this year (AFAIK, neither publicly, officially admits taking E3s). I wondered if perhaps the regional industry was slowly catching up to its manpower needs. Hard to say...
[True enough that scheduling classes isn't the same as getting all the scheduled butts in class]
But with all the attention the "worldwide pilot shortage" is getting, it may move more US nationals to take a run at the career.
We'll have to stay tuned.
I posted some incorrect info on bonuses so I just deleted it. I also spotted on the Endeavour careers page the FOs make over $50 an hour year one. Thats why classes are full.
Also regarding Envoy, how does a union decide that an airline can't hire people through a completely legal channel? The E3 isn't a skill shortage hole plugging visa. Its open to American and Australian citizens to live and work in each others countries for limited periods of time. Stopped comparing then to 457 style visas. They arent reciprocal.
Another thing happening in the Regional airline world is company hopping. People hang around at one company just long enough to collect the bonus then they move on to the next one.
Also regarding Envoy, how does a union decide that an airline can't hire people through a completely legal channel? The E3 isn't a skill shortage hole plugging visa. Its open to American and Australian citizens to live and work in each others countries for limited periods of time. Stopped comparing then to 457 style visas. They arent reciprocal.
Another thing happening in the Regional airline world is company hopping. People hang around at one company just long enough to collect the bonus then they move on to the next one.
Last edited by pilotchute; 2nd Apr 2018 at 14:47.
I posted some incorrect info on bonuses so I just deleted it. I also spotted on the Endeavour careers page the FOs make over $50 an hour year one. Thats why classes are full.
Also regarding Envoy, how does a union decide that an airline can't hire people through a completely legal channel? The E3 isn't a skill shortage hole plugging visa. Its open to American and Australian citizens to live and work in each others countries for limited periods of time. Stopped comparing then to 457 style visas. They arent reciprocal.
Another thing happening in the Regional airline world is company hopping. People hang around at one company just long enough to collect the bonus then they move on to the next one.
Also regarding Envoy, how does a union decide that an airline can't hire people through a completely legal channel? The E3 isn't a skill shortage hole plugging visa. Its open to American and Australian citizens to live and work in each others countries for limited periods of time. Stopped comparing then to 457 style visas. They arent reciprocal.
Another thing happening in the Regional airline world is company hopping. People hang around at one company just long enough to collect the bonus then they move on to the next one.
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That’s great it’s worked out for you.
The point is that the E3 is not an immigrant visa and isn’t automatically afforded a green card/residency. You must be sponsored going through a whole different visa process.
Perhaps you can post which company you are working for so other potential Aussie E3 applicants can target the right place to lead to residency.
The point is that the E3 is not an immigrant visa and isn’t automatically afforded a green card/residency. You must be sponsored going through a whole different visa process.
Perhaps you can post which company you are working for so other potential Aussie E3 applicants can target the right place to lead to residency.
The company sponsorship for permanent residency is an entirely a separate issue. There seems to be some confusion in that if you are on an E3 you cant get a green card.
You just cant self sponsor a green card of an E3 but if you ask your boss nicely they may sponsor you on an EB2 or 3 basis which is an employment based category depending on your qualifications.
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Luggage,
I'm not expecting the government to cancel the E3 program.
The "market" is another animal. When/if the market decides it no longer needs E3 applicants (or needs far fewer of them), the door will close, limiting the available slots. Those interested in this deal won't want to be on the wrong side of that door.
havick will confirm or correct my recollection but I think he said Envoy took E3s at one time but now no longer does ? If so, that's just an example.
Just thinking out loud here. I have no inside knowledge but do know the pilot market is a fickle thing.
I'm not expecting the government to cancel the E3 program.
The "market" is another animal. When/if the market decides it no longer needs E3 applicants (or needs far fewer of them), the door will close, limiting the available slots. Those interested in this deal won't want to be on the wrong side of that door.
havick will confirm or correct my recollection but I think he said Envoy took E3s at one time but now no longer does ? If so, that's just an example.
Just thinking out loud here. I have no inside knowledge but do know the pilot market is a fickle thing.
As it is from a trade pact agreement unless that trade pact agreement is revoked the visa will remain...no ifs no buts!!
...ok.....
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A similar thing is scope clauses. It's perfectly legal under US law for an airline to contract out flying, but many labor contracts have provisions which restrict that to certain conditions. I don't know what is or is not in the Envoy contract, but it's entirely possible for there to be a provision which would restrict the company hiring from overseas.
No the E3 does not automatically allow for a green card application like the H1B but that does not matter, nor is it an issue if the company chooses to sponsor your green card.
The company sponsorship for permanent residency is an entirely a separate issue. There seems to be some confusion in that if you are on an E3 you cant get a green card. You would be one of the first Australian person I know of to be sponsored as a pilot for a green card, so it’s still very slim pickings and shouldn’t bet the farm on.
You just cant self sponsor a green card of an E3 but if you ask your boss nicely they may sponsor you on an EB2 or 3 basis which is an employment based category depending on your qualifications.
The company sponsorship for permanent residency is an entirely a separate issue. There seems to be some confusion in that if you are on an E3 you cant get a green card. You would be one of the first Australian person I know of to be sponsored as a pilot for a green card, so it’s still very slim pickings and shouldn’t bet the farm on.
You just cant self sponsor a green card of an E3 but if you ask your boss nicely they may sponsor you on an EB2 or 3 basis which is an employment based category depending on your qualifications.
By the way you never mentioned which company you work for, would be nice to direct other Aussies there if it’s a proven track to a green card. I’m also curious as to who you flew 190’s for (as per one of your posts in a CX thread a while back) as I can only think if two operators in the US that operate 190’s currently and in the last few years and neither do the E3 or sponsor green cards.
Last edited by havick; 5th Apr 2018 at 15:54.