Sunstate pilot's Reps undercut Eastern pilots AGAIN
It’s ghastly but compelling viewing, watching cockpit labour cannibalising itself.
So “professional”.
You’d all do yourselves a favour if you took this out of the public arena.
So “professional”.
You’d all do yourselves a favour if you took this out of the public arena.
Reading this just makes me glad I work for the Government!
Feeling it for you blokes. I hope that QF doesn't keep screwing you.
Feeling it for you blokes. I hope that QF doesn't keep screwing you.
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Alan's not happy
Come on guys, there's not enough IMHO's being thrown around here and I can't help but notice the severe lack of these signs 
I'm off to the loo and when I get back there better be some more characteristic PPRUNE talk, IMHO
I'm off to the loo and when I get back there better be some more characteristic PPRUNE talk, IMHO
Bottums Up
And therein lies the problem Damien. You rightly have a personal preference which fits with your views. But others obviously have different, and equally valid views. Without picking either or any side, every one can't be happy with a decision.
If the EBA was voted up a year 1 Q400 FO as of Jan 1 2016 would be on $61,758.18, then throw in 90 hours duty per month - $6500 per year = $68k
Not a great wage if your a GA driver coming in from a turbine command job ( if its that bad DON'T take the job) , but if your a cadet straight out of Uni its not a bad start in your career.
The Air Pilots award has an FO's wage listed at $54,391. Thats 13% lower (on base wage) than the negotiated position in the SSA EBA.
Not a great wage if your a GA driver coming in from a turbine command job ( if its that bad DON'T take the job) , but if your a cadet straight out of Uni its not a bad start in your career.
The Air Pilots award has an FO's wage listed at $54,391. Thats 13% lower (on base wage) than the negotiated position in the SSA EBA.
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Arewegettingjets I love how you talk about reducing new hires wages like it's a good thing. Reducing peoples pay will affect us all in the long run. Stop being so short sighted and why should existing FOs get a command bond when they have already endured a 3 year bond. This is a one sided EBA with captains getting big payments with executive car deals and FOs conditions seem to be getting stripped to accommodate it. GOOD STUFF 
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Not a great wage if your a GA driver coming in from a turbine command job ( if its that bad DON'T take the job) , but if your a cadet straight out of Uni its not a bad start in your career.
I am glad though that not many Eastern pilots felt that my wage should be reduced along with ex-cadets' wages. It's hard enough paying a family's bills in Sydney without senior captains suggesting I'm paid enough and don't deserve any more - just because some of my colleagues are straight from flying school.
(Edit: Captain Stoobing, you're making sensible & un-emotional posts, which is commendable. If you could show that no 2016 FO would be worse off in the hip pocket under the new proposal, you would perhaps be closer to achieving the goal of your Pilots' Council.)
Last edited by Oktas8; 22nd May 2015 at 06:57.
Captain Stoobing, Please don't tell me you are negotiating using the Air Pilot Award. Firstly it was done in 2010 and if that is your starting point no wonder we are all going backwards! If that is how you sell EBAs god help us all! If that was the case a narrow body Captain would be on $121,894 and a wide body Captain would single-deck Captain would be on $139,929. You are what you negotiate! A starting point would be working with the Eastern Pilots to improve everyone's conditions in the interest of all professional pilots not just your own self interest!
So Q300 base $57.5K. Adelaide at present does not do 1000 hours of duty. It will be more like 850*6 = 5Kish
Therefore the base + DTA will be approx. 63K. Add on your tax free O/Ns + a cheeky call in here and there (man-made or otherwise) and you'll probably do 70K.
We will still attract good applicants, we are a good operation with great people and that makes us an attractive prospect for potential employees.
Can't wait for the road-show.
Are we getting jets?
Therefore the base + DTA will be approx. 63K. Add on your tax free O/Ns + a cheeky call in here and there (man-made or otherwise) and you'll probably do 70K.
We will still attract good applicants, we are a good operation with great people and that makes us an attractive prospect for potential employees.
Can't wait for the road-show.
Are we getting jets?
And after 3 years there are no jet jobs, you will be totally satisfied with what you signed, right? But wait...... the next EBA will attack the conditions of the guys in the LHS because history demonstrates you guys will sell anything you can. Hey, I can sell you a spot on the QF seniority list if your prepared to take a paycut. There may be one or two caveats, but it will be written in stone!
Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe this first offer was setup to be voted down?
After all the JQ first offer was voted down by 90+% wasn't it?
As has been said before, wait and read the entire document, if you don't like what you read, then vote no and the pilot council will have to try again.
I can't see why the company would remove all financial penalties for a new FO to leave early. It'll turn Sunstate into a constant training school where FO's will leave within 12-18months and experience has shown that whenever there is a large amount of training, the schedule goes out the window. Just look at what is happening now in CNS and BNE on the Q400.
For those complaining about the pilot council only looking after themselves, how many of you applied the last time they were looking for people? Didn't think so...
After all the JQ first offer was voted down by 90+% wasn't it?
As has been said before, wait and read the entire document, if you don't like what you read, then vote no and the pilot council will have to try again.
I can't see why the company would remove all financial penalties for a new FO to leave early. It'll turn Sunstate into a constant training school where FO's will leave within 12-18months and experience has shown that whenever there is a large amount of training, the schedule goes out the window. Just look at what is happening now in CNS and BNE on the Q400.
For those complaining about the pilot council only looking after themselves, how many of you applied the last time they were looking for people? Didn't think so...
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There has to be a point where we stop undercutting each other not just in QLink but in this industry as a whole. From what I can gauge there's quite a percentage of pilots in Eastern who would be prepared to make a strong stand against the company to show them that this kind of deal is just not on.
In addition, the company are valuing half of what we are offering them at $0, then needing more "efficiencies" to pay for our claims but not giving any indication of what they want or how much (just asking for ideas to be thrown at them and they'll let us know when we're getting warm). That is just a slap in the face for the Pilot Council who are trying to negotiate in good faith.
Both of those factors will make the next couple of weeks quite interesting.
In addition, the company are valuing half of what we are offering them at $0, then needing more "efficiencies" to pay for our claims but not giving any indication of what they want or how much (just asking for ideas to be thrown at them and they'll let us know when we're getting warm). That is just a slap in the face for the Pilot Council who are trying to negotiate in good faith.
Both of those factors will make the next couple of weeks quite interesting.
At the risk of repeating myself...
Don't be in too much of a hurry. CAO 48.1 will cost the company far more than any savings/raping of F/O's salaries and conditions.
As April 2016 approaches, watch the collective pennies drop!
Don't be in too much of a hurry. CAO 48.1 will cost the company far more than any savings/raping of F/O's salaries and conditions.
As April 2016 approaches, watch the collective pennies drop!
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KRUSTY,
I hope for the pilot group's sake that I am wrong but historically the company is extremely reluctant to pay more than the usual when it comes to these big ticket demands... And let's face it, the union and the company both know that CAO48 is a big ticket due to the changes brought in by CASA. From what I heard, the company didn't entertain the unions price tag for removing the duty hour limit clause from the EBA.
One exeption to my statement above is the 40k bonus to captains in '08, for obvious reasons at the time. But that's about the only time I recall in my time with the company.
My guess is that the company will simply suck it up and take it for what it is.
I hope for the pilot group's sake that I am wrong but historically the company is extremely reluctant to pay more than the usual when it comes to these big ticket demands... And let's face it, the union and the company both know that CAO48 is a big ticket due to the changes brought in by CASA. From what I heard, the company didn't entertain the unions price tag for removing the duty hour limit clause from the EBA.
One exeption to my statement above is the 40k bonus to captains in '08, for obvious reasons at the time. But that's about the only time I recall in my time with the company.
My guess is that the company will simply suck it up and take it for what it is.
Yes.......LWOP
And it is being extended for a few over in NZ. I'm happy for those folks over there but it is crazy to extend someone's LWOP to then have to hire someone into the company.
All things EBA aside its a circus.
And it is being extended for a few over in NZ. I'm happy for those folks over there but it is crazy to extend someone's LWOP to then have to hire someone into the company.
All things EBA aside its a circus.
Thanks Soup'. I actually tend to agree. It is so far outside of the management's mind-set, that to offer anything substantial (even when faced with the bleeding obvious) would simply be unthinkable. It just isn't in their DNA! One thing's for sure though, come April next year, it may become rather entertaining.
Several LWOP requests lately have been denied after having a verbal agreement when the LWOP offer was initially advertised.
Those that have had it denied, have all resigned...
The QLink C&T system will be working hard again by the looks of it seeing as quite a few of the new FO's won't be sticking around long...
Those that have had it denied, have all resigned...
The QLink C&T system will be working hard again by the looks of it seeing as quite a few of the new FO's won't be sticking around long...
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In the Soup,
The company actually wanted to remove the current CAO rules from the EBA and replace them with a clause that states the company can change the rules however they like, whenever they like. Obviously the council said WTF???!!!
NowThatsFunny
The company actually wanted to remove the current CAO rules from the EBA and replace them with a clause that states the company can change the rules however they like, whenever they like. Obviously the council said WTF???!!!
NowThatsFunny