Sunstate pilot's Reps undercut Eastern pilots AGAIN
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DIVOSH
The war is over. Ever heard of Hirō Onoda?
76% and 91% are the only two pieces of information that are relevant now. You guys liked your EBA more than we liked ours.
As Winston Churchill once said, democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others. Democracy has spoken, we dont always like what it says, but we have to live with it. Democracy ain't perfect.
We now have to suffer under our new imperfect EBAs, that deliver us a chunk of cash, a pay rise every year, and a job. Could be worse.
The war is over. Ever heard of Hirō Onoda?
76% and 91% are the only two pieces of information that are relevant now. You guys liked your EBA more than we liked ours.
As Winston Churchill once said, democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others. Democracy has spoken, we dont always like what it says, but we have to live with it. Democracy ain't perfect.
We now have to suffer under our new imperfect EBAs, that deliver us a chunk of cash, a pay rise every year, and a job. Could be worse.
Last edited by JustOneDude; 27th Aug 2015 at 01:28.
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G’day HappyBandit and Biglanchow, thank you both for your considered replies.
HappyBandit, you’re giving me way too much credit when you say that “I’m trying to create an ‘us and them’ mentality”.
Around 1/3 of current Eastern pilots were present in 2005 when the Q400 was introduced. The ‘Us and them’ mentality, well established before then, was reinforced. People have very long memories, however progress had been made to make amends in the 10 years since. But it all went south in May this year.
The decisions made by the Sunnies negotiators (and subsequent voting) have been hot topics in the NSW and Victorian crew-rooms since May, and will continue to be for some time. While I’d hardly call myself a moderate voice, neither would I consider myself to be extreme, and I’d be surprised if anyone at Eastern was swayed to my point of view by reading what I’ve written on this thread.
Any Eastern pilots sharing all or parts of my opinion (and I’d suggest it’s a majority) have come to this point of view entirely without my help.
As for how the Eastern pilots voted, please re-read my earlier post. If you haven’t done so already I suggest you get onto the AFAP website and have a good read of Eastern EBA Update #50.
To my knowledge, Sunstate pilots did NOT have any threats by management put upon them on how to vote.
My personal opinion is that, if pushed, the company would have gone down the same path with Eastern pilots as they did with the Sunstate engineers.
Biglanchow. Thank you. Not sure about 49%, but I agree with you that I’ve weakened my own arguments with careless comments. Personally, I consider whatever abuse I’ve flung north to be a “return of serve”.
However, point taken, and if I continue to post on this thread I’ll show more restraint.
I’ve got to say that I’m not a fan of the “If you don’t like it, leave” mentality. One of Kumar’s favourite sayings, and one that bit him in the arse in 2010 IIRC, when he said that to a bunch of Brisbane Q300 Captains, and 11 did just that in the next four months!
How about being part of a “Let’s improve where we are” mentality instead?
Just One Dude, yes, it's over! But if you think the consequences are over, you're mistaken.
DIVOSH!
HappyBandit, you’re giving me way too much credit when you say that “I’m trying to create an ‘us and them’ mentality”.
Around 1/3 of current Eastern pilots were present in 2005 when the Q400 was introduced. The ‘Us and them’ mentality, well established before then, was reinforced. People have very long memories, however progress had been made to make amends in the 10 years since. But it all went south in May this year.
The decisions made by the Sunnies negotiators (and subsequent voting) have been hot topics in the NSW and Victorian crew-rooms since May, and will continue to be for some time. While I’d hardly call myself a moderate voice, neither would I consider myself to be extreme, and I’d be surprised if anyone at Eastern was swayed to my point of view by reading what I’ve written on this thread.
Any Eastern pilots sharing all or parts of my opinion (and I’d suggest it’s a majority) have come to this point of view entirely without my help.
As for how the Eastern pilots voted, please re-read my earlier post. If you haven’t done so already I suggest you get onto the AFAP website and have a good read of Eastern EBA Update #50.
To my knowledge, Sunstate pilots did NOT have any threats by management put upon them on how to vote.
My personal opinion is that, if pushed, the company would have gone down the same path with Eastern pilots as they did with the Sunstate engineers.
Biglanchow. Thank you. Not sure about 49%, but I agree with you that I’ve weakened my own arguments with careless comments. Personally, I consider whatever abuse I’ve flung north to be a “return of serve”.
However, point taken, and if I continue to post on this thread I’ll show more restraint.
I’ve got to say that I’m not a fan of the “If you don’t like it, leave” mentality. One of Kumar’s favourite sayings, and one that bit him in the arse in 2010 IIRC, when he said that to a bunch of Brisbane Q300 Captains, and 11 did just that in the next four months!
How about being part of a “Let’s improve where we are” mentality instead?
Just One Dude, yes, it's over! But if you think the consequences are over, you're mistaken.
DIVOSH!
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I've always hated the "if you don't like it, leave" theory as well. Employees and businesses alike should be finding a way to keep everyone moderately happy - it's productive on both sides.
Unfortunately, the result out of Queensland has simply proven to the company what they've been claiming for years - people don't care about the long term, they'll leave regardless of the conditions. All that happened at SSA was a group of shortsighted individuals looking out for themselves in the short term with no genuine care as to the future of the operation. Really, nobody cares about "lifestyle", we'll all be gone within the first 3-5 years. The company has played the line and the pilot group has played up to it.
Yes life in Brisbane (and especially cairns) is comparatively cheap. It's got nothing to do with Sydney or Melbourne being a "rip off" as was illuded to earlier - it's just how it is. Omaha is cheaper than New York. The premier cities are by default expensive and not all of us want to sacrifice that and move to the secondary cities because it's all we can afford. Maybe if I were a K-Mart employee, life in Nudgee might look pretty good but as a professional it's my right to try to live my life in my own home city. Unfortunately, those at SSA again were only looking out for number 1.
EAA/SAA is exactly what Qantas want for this very reason. And unfortunately, this result has ensured it will never change (not that it was going to anyway).
If you don't like it... Leave. There it is again. Such a damaging statement, and one that has ensured QantasLink will forever be nothing more than it is. A stepping stone with a fancy logo on the tail. I feel sorry for those who have dedicated their careers to the organisaion.
Unfortunately, the result out of Queensland has simply proven to the company what they've been claiming for years - people don't care about the long term, they'll leave regardless of the conditions. All that happened at SSA was a group of shortsighted individuals looking out for themselves in the short term with no genuine care as to the future of the operation. Really, nobody cares about "lifestyle", we'll all be gone within the first 3-5 years. The company has played the line and the pilot group has played up to it.
Yes life in Brisbane (and especially cairns) is comparatively cheap. It's got nothing to do with Sydney or Melbourne being a "rip off" as was illuded to earlier - it's just how it is. Omaha is cheaper than New York. The premier cities are by default expensive and not all of us want to sacrifice that and move to the secondary cities because it's all we can afford. Maybe if I were a K-Mart employee, life in Nudgee might look pretty good but as a professional it's my right to try to live my life in my own home city. Unfortunately, those at SSA again were only looking out for number 1.
EAA/SAA is exactly what Qantas want for this very reason. And unfortunately, this result has ensured it will never change (not that it was going to anyway).
If you don't like it... Leave. There it is again. Such a damaging statement, and one that has ensured QantasLink will forever be nothing more than it is. A stepping stone with a fancy logo on the tail. I feel sorry for those who have dedicated their careers to the organisaion.
Standard Eastern management EBA "negotiation" style:
Step 1. Ensure EBA expired a couple of years ago so significant back pay is at stake
Step 2. First offer is so crap and full of loop holes it will get voted down
Step 3. Next offer is even worse, but vote it up or you will lose your back pay
Guaranteed to get the desired result every time.
It's why I left the joint 8 years ago, and haven't looked back since.
Step 1. Ensure EBA expired a couple of years ago so significant back pay is at stake
Step 2. First offer is so crap and full of loop holes it will get voted down
Step 3. Next offer is even worse, but vote it up or you will lose your back pay
Guaranteed to get the desired result every time.
It's why I left the joint 8 years ago, and haven't looked back since.
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Understandable CAptain, but a very selfish position.
You fail to consider the entertainment value that Di-Vosh and his supporters provide as they ride the ss Denial down the Egyptian river..............
You fail to consider the entertainment value that Di-Vosh and his supporters provide as they ride the ss Denial down the Egyptian river..............
