Northern Australia could be opened to foreign airlines
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Northern Australia could be opened to foreign airlines
Join Date: May 2011
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would it effect any existing commercial flights at all within OZ ?
Ok maybe DPS/TSV could be operated by an Indonesian carrier with stop in DRW & then they could sell DRW/TSV, as well as DPS/DRW & DPS/TSV.
or maybe some Asian low costs (eg. Air Asia X, Scoot, Cebu Pacific) might fly Asia/DRW/CNS.
What other flights would be effected ?
Some FIFO, eg. a foreign carrier could carry FIFO pax ex DRW to some mining towns, but are there any runways that service mines that could take widebodies ?
or A320's/B739's ?
Only ports north of tropic of Capricorn.
Ok maybe DPS/TSV could be operated by an Indonesian carrier with stop in DRW & then they could sell DRW/TSV, as well as DPS/DRW & DPS/TSV.
or maybe some Asian low costs (eg. Air Asia X, Scoot, Cebu Pacific) might fly Asia/DRW/CNS.
What other flights would be effected ?
Some FIFO, eg. a foreign carrier could carry FIFO pax ex DRW to some mining towns, but are there any runways that service mines that could take widebodies ?
or A320's/B739's ?
Only ports north of tropic of Capricorn.
Years ago when BOAC/British Airways operated MEL-DRW-HKG-BKK etc etc to LHR it usually carried MEL-DRW domestic freight. The requirement being the freight had to be lodged by AN or TN.
What other country in the world allows this?
The lunatics have taken over the asylum!
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we're talking all flights north of tropic of Capricorn.
eg. CNS/TSV or CNS/DRW or DRW/BME huge routes just like golden triangle(NOT).
The U.S. allows QF to fly LAX/JFK/LAX everyday, currently using a 744. Apparently never ever full (QF can't "sell" the sector except to people with a QF ticket in or out of the U.S. - but am told allowed to carry local freight)
A few foreign carriers are permitted to fly eg. CX YVR/JFK which is almost domestic.
eg. CNS/TSV or CNS/DRW or DRW/BME huge routes just like golden triangle(NOT).
The U.S. allows QF to fly LAX/JFK/LAX everyday, currently using a 744. Apparently never ever full (QF can't "sell" the sector except to people with a QF ticket in or out of the U.S. - but am told allowed to carry local freight)
A few foreign carriers are permitted to fly eg. CX YVR/JFK which is almost domestic.
Swh, I believe Jetstar are taking out a lot of freight underfloor on their BOC flights, don't know if it has taken up the slack of the 767 departure though.
And this is a crazy idea, thin edge of the wedge, for the first time in a long time I actually agree with QANTAS management!! Can't believe I just said that.
And this is a crazy idea, thin edge of the wedge, for the first time in a long time I actually agree with QANTAS management!! Can't believe I just said that.
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its an affront to sovereignty, NO real country allows a foreign operator to conduct point to point travel within its borders, it would be like Emirates going Sydney direct to London for example
soon Garuda will have a base in Broome servicing the entire north, so much for the like of Rex, Air North and all other operators up there struggling to eek out a market
might as well put a for sale sign up on the lawn at parliament in Canberra FFS
wake up retards; a great many countries have marginal remote routes that need to be government subsidized for companies to operate to them, i mean would anyone here continue to do anything, let alone fly an airplane to a remote location if i was guaranteed to lose money every time
soon Garuda will have a base in Broome servicing the entire north, so much for the like of Rex, Air North and all other operators up there struggling to eek out a market
might as well put a for sale sign up on the lawn at parliament in Canberra FFS
wake up retards; a great many countries have marginal remote routes that need to be government subsidized for companies to operate to them, i mean would anyone here continue to do anything, let alone fly an airplane to a remote location if i was guaranteed to lose money every time
Its all over the press.
The recent Harper Review of competition policy recommended that air cabotage restrictions should be removed for all air cargo as well as passenger services to specific geographic areas, based on a permit system.
A government green paper on Northern Australia also raised the issue in the context of possibly cheaper travel for remote communities.
Bold plan to slash fares may take off for air travellers from Cairns | Cairns Post
The recent Harper Review of competition policy recommended that air cabotage restrictions should be removed for all air cargo as well as passenger services to specific geographic areas, based on a permit system.
A government green paper on Northern Australia also raised the issue in the context of possibly cheaper travel for remote communities.
Bold plan to slash fares may take off for air travellers from Cairns | Cairns Post
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No doubt this will promote a positive reply from the travelers.
From the Cairns post facebook page one lady says:
"Can I got to Peru direct from cairns please instead of having to go to Sydney. It's an international airport for Christ sake. What a joke."
From the Cairns post facebook page one lady says:
"Can I got to Peru direct from cairns please instead of having to go to Sydney. It's an international airport for Christ sake. What a joke."
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its an affront to sovereignty, NO real country allows a foreign operator to conduct point to point travel within its borders, it would be like Emirates going Sydney direct to London for example
Or like Emirates flying AKL-BNE/SYD/MEL and CHC-SYD?
I'm afraid these governments are not concerned with sovereignty these days, more concerned with free trade agreements.
What other country in the world allows this?
Eighth freedom (consecutive cabotage)
The unofficial eighth freedom is the right to carry passengers or cargo between two or more points in one foreign country and is also known as cabotage.[6]:31 It is extremely rare outside Europe. The main example is the European Union, which has granted such rights to all its member states. Other examples include the Single Aviation Market (SAM) established between Australia and New Zealand in 1996; the 2001 Protocol to the Multilateral Agreement on the Liberalization of International Air Transportation (MALIAT) between Brunei, Chile, New Zealand and Singapore; United Airlines "island hopper" route, from Guam to Honolulu, able to transport passengers within the Federated States of Micronesia and the Marshall Islands, although the countries involved are closely associated with the United States, the flag of United. Such rights have usually granted only where the domestic air network is very underdeveloped. A notable instance was Pan Am's authority to fly between Frankfurt and West Berlin from the 1950s to 1980s, although political circumstances, not the state of the domestic air network, dictated this - only airlines of the Allied Powers of France, the United Kingdom and the United States had the right to land aircraft in West Berlin.[citation needed][23] In 2005, the United Kingdom and New Zealand concluded an agreement granting unlimited cabotage rights.[24] Given the distance between the two countries, the agreement can be seen as reflecting a political principle rather than an expectation that these rights will be taken up in the near future. New Zealand had exchanged eighth-freedom rights with Ireland in 1999.
its an affront to sovereignty, NO real country allows a foreign operator to conduct point to point travel within its borders, it would be like Emirates going Sydney direct to London for example
Self interest, at the expense of Australian lives and jobs, is alive in this idea. Besides all that, those carriers that would want to take advantage of this come from countries that hate our guts.
They had FIFO people coming in from South Africa cheaper to Port Headland than from the east coast.
Lots do, all of Europe, South America
What is being proposed in Australia would be like QF opening a base in London or Santiago and flying internally with feed from it's international flights. Try that on in Europe and see how much they believe in a 'free market'.
Second to all this is the onerous regulatory environment that we operate under in Australia. That is a cost to the business that all these international operators won't have to deal with. A simple example would be FA ratios. An Australian operator in a A320 would have to fly with 4 FA's as minimum, where as a US registered operator would only need 3.
The Australian government don't know if they are Arthur or Martha. On one hand they regulate Australian Businesses into oblivion then in the next sentence allow anyone anywhere in the world with none of the regulatory burdens that we have carte blanche.
Then you have the whole issue of foreign companies bypassing taxation and foreign depreciation laws and compulsory super etc etc etc.....
EK or EY cannot turn up and start flying internally all over Europe next week in its aircraft.
Many airlines operate internal flights in Europe, eg LAN operates Madrid to Frankfurt. It is less common these days for tag flights as aircraft have the legs to do direct, however the history is there and still goes on today.
Qantas many moons ago used to operate Athens to Belgrade, Athens to Rome, Athens to Paris, Vienna to Frankfurt to Amsterdam. San Francisco to Vancouver. They even used to operate Darwin to Bangkok.
Cathay had for years operated Adelaide to Melbourne, and Cairns to Brisbane.
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CX can't sell domestic legs in isolation.
But the point here is, only for flight above tropic of Capricorn(toc), which probably limits all flights to ROC, (if north of TOC), MKY, TSV, CNS. DRW, BME.
Who would want to fly internationally into one of these ports via another of these ports ?
Maybe some Indo carrier from DPS to ROC, MKY or BME once a week in a B737 or A320 via DRW, where they could also sell the domestic leg in isolation.
Don't think there would be much demand except if they did FIFO flights DRW/some port in WA that could handle that size of aircraft.
Not talking anything south of TOC.
FYI
have flown on a NH 744 & a PX 763 on a BNE/SYD sector on a Ansett/Qantas ff ticket, but don't think this type of thing happens anymore.
But the point here is, only for flight above tropic of Capricorn(toc), which probably limits all flights to ROC, (if north of TOC), MKY, TSV, CNS. DRW, BME.
Who would want to fly internationally into one of these ports via another of these ports ?
Maybe some Indo carrier from DPS to ROC, MKY or BME once a week in a B737 or A320 via DRW, where they could also sell the domestic leg in isolation.
Don't think there would be much demand except if they did FIFO flights DRW/some port in WA that could handle that size of aircraft.
Not talking anything south of TOC.
FYI
have flown on a NH 744 & a PX 763 on a BNE/SYD sector on a Ansett/Qantas ff ticket, but don't think this type of thing happens anymore.
Many airlines operate internal flights in Europe, eg LAN operates Madrid to Frankfurt. It is less common these days for tag flights as aircraft have the legs to do direct, however the history is there and still goes on today.
What the Australian government is doing is allowing unregulated foreign carriers to operate domestically in Australia without any reciprocation for Australian airlines.
At the end of the day BNEA320 is right where are they going to fly domestically anyway?