Qantas Fleet Order Speculation
Qantas previously announced that they have FIRM SIGNED orders for 8 more A380s. This was before they realised the plane is not really the most appropriate plane for Qantas
Airbus is desperate to sell the A380 and will not let Qantas out of the firm orders. This is part the reason for the delay on the 787.
Qantas has tried swapping the A380 order for A350 and even more A320/321 to ultimately replace the 738.
Yes DIXON made firm orders for the extra 8. NO they are not wanted. YES Airbus wants Qantas to take them
Airbus is desperate to sell the A380 and will not let Qantas out of the firm orders. This is part the reason for the delay on the 787.
Qantas has tried swapping the A380 order for A350 and even more A320/321 to ultimately replace the 738.Yes DIXON made firm orders for the extra 8. NO they are not wanted. YES Airbus wants Qantas to take them
1a...You can probably find press stories from a few years ago when those orders were cancelled.
Yes, QF signed a firm order for 20 A380s. Then Airbus screwed up the entire programme, causing massive contractual penalty payments to be triggered. The early aircraft were all sold at introductory pricing that some analysts at the time believed to be 55% of list price.
The penalty payments for late deliveries plus the ongoing penalties for missed performance guarantees meant that airbus would lose even more money if Qantas insisted on the full 20 deliveries.
At the time of the last added delay Airbus and Qantas agreed to cancel the last eight and have the scope to indefinitely delay numbers 13 & 14. Qantas didn't have to pay a break fee, and Airbus avoided the last penalty payments on aircraft that they were already losing money on.
Yes, QF signed a firm order for 20 A380s. Then Airbus screwed up the entire programme, causing massive contractual penalty payments to be triggered. The early aircraft were all sold at introductory pricing that some analysts at the time believed to be 55% of list price.
The penalty payments for late deliveries plus the ongoing penalties for missed performance guarantees meant that airbus would lose even more money if Qantas insisted on the full 20 deliveries.
At the time of the last added delay Airbus and Qantas agreed to cancel the last eight and have the scope to indefinitely delay numbers 13 & 14. Qantas didn't have to pay a break fee, and Airbus avoided the last penalty payments on aircraft that they were already losing money on.
You can probably find press stories from a few years ago when those orders were cancelled.
I will go looking
Qantas's head of International, Gareth Evans is quoted in the latest Australian Aviation, saying 'that the airline would not buy any more A380s beyond the 12 it has.'
Q Fleet Developments | Qantas
Perhaps the Q website has not been updated ?
Qantas now has 12 A380-800 aircraft operating on selected flights from Sydney and Melbourne to Los Angeles, Hong Kong, Dubai and London, with 8 to be delivered by Airbus.
Well, yeah, considering there's no mention of Dallas on that blurb. The rule in airline PR flackery seems to require a rosy picture being painted on everything. No orders are ever cancelled in PR terms until the assembly line shuts. I think we still had outstanding 707 orders listed in 1991.
The 8 more A380s
Quote:
You can probably find press stories from a few years ago when those orders were cancelled.
You can probably find press stories from a few years ago when those orders were cancelled.
1. The QF press releases and reports all talk about another 8 on order. Nowhere is there any mention of them being cancelled, only deferred
2. I found this link on facebook. There is a link to the offical Airbus excel spreadsheet with all A380 orderd and Qantas definitely has 20 on order
https://www.facebook.com/qfsecrets
3. Both companies have publicly traded shares and both would need to make an official announcement , by law, if any of those 20 were cancelled
Now how much does another 8 A380s cost?
1a
You appear to have a preoccupation with QF and the A380.
There will be an agreement between Airbus and QF that the order cancellation will be announced closer to the firm commitment date. It would be disastrous for the A380 program if the cancellation from QF was announced. As it is the decision by MH to dump the A380 is sending smoke signals that the a/c is an expensive proposition for small carriers.
TG may be the next carrier to exit the A380 if the can find a buyer willing to pay the book value. TG are currently bleeding from the grounding of their A340-500 and A340-600 fleets. They recently rejected an offer of USD23M for an A340-500 due to a book value of USD66.9M
You appear to have a preoccupation with QF and the A380.
There will be an agreement between Airbus and QF that the order cancellation will be announced closer to the firm commitment date. It would be disastrous for the A380 program if the cancellation from QF was announced. As it is the decision by MH to dump the A380 is sending smoke signals that the a/c is an expensive proposition for small carriers.
TG may be the next carrier to exit the A380 if the can find a buyer willing to pay the book value. TG are currently bleeding from the grounding of their A340-500 and A340-600 fleets. They recently rejected an offer of USD23M for an A340-500 due to a book value of USD66.9M
772,
The cuts are more than A380s, they include the 747, 777, A330, and around 20,000 staff. They have also announced they are pulling out of a number of Australian ports.
The airline has had problems for a while, then the loss of two 777s. If anything the 777 is the demise of MH.
The cuts are more than A380s, they include the 747, 777, A330, and around 20,000 staff. They have also announced they are pulling out of a number of Australian ports.
The airline has had problems for a while, then the loss of two 777s. If anything the 777 is the demise of MH.
The A380 works if you can fill it and fly sub ten hour sectors. If you can't, the 330/350 is the better choice.
The 777 is a long haul aeroplane. It's the aeroplane QF should be flying the pacific in.
QF should also have a combination of 330s and 777s hubbing to Dubai, with 380s flying the onwards connection to Europe. It's the ideal machine for that, which is why EK love them.
I have a feeling that's what the end game is. 787s and 330s to Dubai from all australian capitals and the full LHR slots being utilised onwards with 380s allowing more capacity for both QF and EK.
The 777 is a long haul aeroplane. It's the aeroplane QF should be flying the pacific in.
QF should also have a combination of 330s and 777s hubbing to Dubai, with 380s flying the onwards connection to Europe. It's the ideal machine for that, which is why EK love them.
I have a feeling that's what the end game is. 787s and 330s to Dubai from all australian capitals and the full LHR slots being utilised onwards with 380s allowing more capacity for both QF and EK.
Even if they have to commit to spending the money to Airbus, wouldn't they just ask if they could use it on replacing the A320's with NEO's which is the plan anyway?
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Without seeing the contract it's hard to know if other products could be substituted, but I would expect Airbus secured a signature or two against purchases of specific airframes. It's not like buying a Myer voucher as a gift for someone to select the goods of their choice..
TGG,
Can I ask where you get your 10hr number from? Apart from Asia you are still over water when flying from most of Oz at the 10hr mark.
The EK 77ER starts shedding ZFW for more fuel at the 11hr mark. Is carrying the same ZFW as a 345 for the same fuel burn at the 14hr mark ( and we know successful the 345 is right?). And is having 100 empty seats to fly 15hrs. Our new 575t 380s are carrying full pax loads out of DXB at 42 degrees (no restriction to TOW), for over 15hrs, and still a few 1000kg below MTOW. In fact at 15hr it's carrying 80% more revenue for 37% more fuel than one of our 77ERs. I wonder why EK long haul is going 380? The last 42 380s EK received are burning a bit over a 1000kg per hour less than the first 20, due to some changes in the wing twist.
EK are operating them on flights as short as an hour, KWI, and as long as 15.30hr, IAH and LAX. It sends them to MRU twice a day, and into regional UK twice a day (MAN).
To get them to make money you need a management team that wants to grow an airline, and search out market share. Rather than shrink an airline and search out bonuses.
Can I ask where you get your 10hr number from? Apart from Asia you are still over water when flying from most of Oz at the 10hr mark.
The EK 77ER starts shedding ZFW for more fuel at the 11hr mark. Is carrying the same ZFW as a 345 for the same fuel burn at the 14hr mark ( and we know successful the 345 is right?). And is having 100 empty seats to fly 15hrs. Our new 575t 380s are carrying full pax loads out of DXB at 42 degrees (no restriction to TOW), for over 15hrs, and still a few 1000kg below MTOW. In fact at 15hr it's carrying 80% more revenue for 37% more fuel than one of our 77ERs. I wonder why EK long haul is going 380? The last 42 380s EK received are burning a bit over a 1000kg per hour less than the first 20, due to some changes in the wing twist.
EK are operating them on flights as short as an hour, KWI, and as long as 15.30hr, IAH and LAX. It sends them to MRU twice a day, and into regional UK twice a day (MAN).
To get them to make money you need a management team that wants to grow an airline, and search out market share. Rather than shrink an airline and search out bonuses.
If I remember correctly, TN had 'firm orders' for the A320 in the late eighties but, after the merger and the decision to stick with the Boeing, QF used the deposit for heavy maintenance on the A300s instead.
Slight thread drift but:---
Has anyone else tried the new J class flat bed seats in the domestic A332's yet?
I tried it this morning and wasn't all that impressed. It felt very closed in having half my body inside a tunnel and wasn't all that comfortable. The headrest is terrible and the seat hard.
I placed it into that new "takeoff/landing" recline position only to be told off by the cabin crew to put the seat up so I get a green light.......???
I gave up arguing with her and complied.....she asked if I was comfortable to which I said "actually no", she said "oh well it won't be long before we land"
The fact I was in uniform probably didn't help her care factor!!
Has anyone else tried the new J class flat bed seats in the domestic A332's yet?
I tried it this morning and wasn't all that impressed. It felt very closed in having half my body inside a tunnel and wasn't all that comfortable. The headrest is terrible and the seat hard.
I placed it into that new "takeoff/landing" recline position only to be told off by the cabin crew to put the seat up so I get a green light.......???
I gave up arguing with her and complied.....she asked if I was comfortable to which I said "actually no", she said "oh well it won't be long before we land"
The fact I was in uniform probably didn't help her care factor!!