Would it happen here?

[Captain Sand Dune]

Any response to this should IMHO be looking at pilots' psychological health, so that these nutters don't find their way onto a flight deck.

In the ADF it's called 'supervision'.

[Luke SkyToddler]

During my time working for a UK LCC, we had a cabin crew arrested by MI6 on suspicion of being part of a terrorist cell. That person was a male, pretty strongly built chap, looked like a gym rat.

The guy brought me a coffee in the cruise on several occasions, was always friendly enough. Everyone was pretty amazed to hear the news.

Obviously a lot of "holy-****" and "what-if" scenarios were discussed among the pilots in the days after his arrest.

We'll never know but I for one am very glad that there was NO policy requiring hosties to be left alone with one pilot at that time, because that would obviously have been the best time for the bad guys to attack.

What's the answer to that one, have TWO hosties up the front, one to supervise the other? Where does it end?

Bloody insanity, and I can't see an easy fix no matter how hard I look

[neville_nobody]

The other problem is that Pysch testing is beatable. A would be terrorist or suicide candidate can always beat a pysch interview. The other issue is that even if you did pysch evaluation every year your whole world can fall apart two days later and you have 363 days until your next interview whilst dealing with whatever it is that hasn't worked out.

Plenty of Military types and spies have either switched teams or gone AWOL and they are under much higher scrutiny than pilots ever will be. End of the day you can't control all pilots and second guess what they might be feeling or doing. How do you reckon Edward Snowden's pysch evaluation/polygraph testing is looking right now?

I think two crew in the flightdeck will probably stop a spur of moment suicide but nothing is going to stop someone who is determine to take out everybody.

[Mahatma Kote]

A number of economical solutions to faulty soggyware come to mind.

- Banning coffee for flight crew for the same periods alcohol is banned
- Shackles and diapers
- Tasers in the seats operated by CC and/or Company maintenance
- A big red button that gasses the pilots and sets up an automatic landing

[Angle of Attack]

So your in cruise get a flight attendant in the jumpseat. Next thing a TCAS RA descend, disconnect follow the commands , flight attendant freaks out next you have a crash axe spike embedded in your head. Of course this is a statistical almost impossibility but at the end of the day you can't regulate everything, there has to be someone where the buck stops.. There are rogue everyone's...

[RATpin]

Wonder how long before CASA mandate carriage of a large Dog on the Flight Deck to prevent the remaining operator touching anything?

[travelator]

These events seemed scarcer when we had flight engineers in the cockpit. Perhaps another presence does make a difference?

Back in the day, it was very difficult to become a successful pilot. Only a small percentage would have had the aptitude and mental fitness required for the job. Now, all you need is cash and with the basic training can be in a control seat of a jet within a year or two.

[t_cas]

Back in the day, it was very difficult to become a successful pilot. Only a small percentage would have had the aptitude and mental fitness required for the job. Now, all you need is cash and with the basic training can be in a control seat of a jet within a year or two.

A seemingly valid observation.
It is a fact that the game has changed. Generation "now" with the added pressure of social media status and the perception of great importance and achievement that must be posted in the now..... Or never.

[Boney]

There is no way it could happen here.

Security Screening ensures pax are safe by making Pilots take off their watches and shoes.

I feel I should add I have full respect for the front line workers manning the security checkpoints. I always show them the respect they rightfully deserve. It is not their fault that DOTARS, their boss is not aware that pilots fly aeroplanes.

This accident is yet another example of what a wank it is to make Pilots go through security. What are they looking for? Are they checking that I don't have something in my pocket I may use to take control of the aircraft? Guess what DOTARS, I already have control of the aircraft.

Tossers!

[Oldmate]

Move the flight deck door back 1 metre and lav 1 becomes a flight deck toilet. Bean counters might not like it though.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

[caneworm]

Code:

Move the flight deck door back 1 metre and lav 1 becomes a flight deck toilet.

That'll work well with QF's amazing A330 reconfiguration

[Captain Biggles84]

I wonder if this can highlight the need to get the focus on these paying for your job type schemes that need abolished from the industry worldwide.

The pressure of a cadetship/endo and associated debt, combined with the rigours of being an F/O in a LCC with the realisation that maybe flying isn't all it cracked up to be one can see how this may contribute to the onset of depression. Add to the fact other stressors in ones personal life stress we can easily see how some ill prepared young adults who thought they were walking into the golden life may be struggling with it all.

I stress none of the above reasons justifies any such behaviour that we have seen in France however do we really need added stressors to young adults entering the workforce.

[Capt Claret]

so that these nutters don't find their way onto a flight deck.

And perhaps instead of just labelling the guy a nutter (assuming the current theorising is correct) we could consider that he was unwell, and may not have been rationally responsible for his actions.

[2Plus]

Seriously Biggles?! It's all the cadets' fault? Of course, we knew it all along but now we have proof! Young, inexperienced, indebted pilots are more prone to breakdowns than more experienced ex-GA/Forces pilots who are impervious to finance and other psychological stressors.
Please tell me I misunderstood you!

"do we really need added stressors to young adults entering the workforce."

Do we really need the added stressors of finance, job security, divorce, family illness, death or other personal issues applied to any of us, even those who are a little older and tough as nails? Fact is, that's life! We all deal with it differently. Some have more of a struggle doing so, which is no fault of theirs. I appreciate older "can" mean wiser but I don't buy the crap that a new-hire who "paid for his/her job" is more susceptible to psychological stressors than the rest of us.

One hundred and fifty souls have just been lost as a result of what appears to be a very lost one. How about we show a bit of tact as a group of professionals!

[Hempy]

Originally Posted by Oldmate

Bean counters might not like it though.

Imo you can thank the bean counters for the problem in the first place. Do you think airlines hire 500hr pay to fly F/O's because it costs them more, or less??

p.s 2plus, at least if the condition was with the pilot the whole time there is more chance of it beimg observed before he/she has 100+ souls in his/her care.

[spleener]

Would it happen here?

Those who've been around long enough probably, and sadly, recall the Connellan [Connair] Alice Springs tragedy back in the 70's.....

Connellan air disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[2Plus]

p.s 2plus, at least if the condition was with the pilot the whole time there is more chance of it beimg observed before he/she has 100+ souls in his/her care.

Possibly. I think it's also just as possible it may still go unnoticed, which is what appears to have been partly the case in this tragedy. What signs do you look for in someone to check if they're in the right frame of mind to operate? When would you pull them aside for a chat? Briefing? Before leaving the flight deck? Does one need to be suffering from a long-term underlying condition before they one day decide to look for a release, perhaps from the effects of a more recent stressful event?

It's not uncommon for sufferers of mental illnesses such as depression to not give any "tells". If this bloke did indeed have "issues", then from what I've seen of the footage, there were at least some who were close to him yet found it completely out of character for him. I heard he took a break from training. Obviously he was later found fit to continue. Could happen to any of us, new recruit or veteran.

[dr dre]

Could happen to any of us, new recruit or veteran..

Exactly, lets not forget previous examples:
Egyptair -FO was 59yrs old and had 12'000hrs
Silkair - Captain had 20 years experience, former fighter instructor pilot
JAL and LAM Mozambique - both Captain's involved in those incidents

These are so rare they are statically unmeasurable, but is shows it just that it isn't a phenomena of low hour pilots.

[NCD]

FedEx 705 had three on the flight deck.

It was the jumpseat guy that went berserk with hammers and had a speargun as backup....

Where do you start????