Would it happen here?
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Ok, since nobody has picked up on it- the point of my somewhat sarcastic remark about dogs on the flight deck was that we professional aviators have suffered through many knee jerk reactions by the legislators over time to achieve nothing more than window dressing. Think Howards gun laws after Port Arthur/drug testing after Hamilton Island/Security after 911etc etc.I don't know how we change it but I fear with social media, the pressure on legislators to be seen to act quickly in the 24hr news cycle, we are going to see more of this BS of greasy pole climbing prosecutors jumping the gun ahead of the investigative analysis.
Rant over
Rant over
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(Tongue in cheek) I seriously hope he got checked for explosive traces at security...what a difference that makes!!!
Bomb proof doors - result of sep 11. This accident - a result of the reaction to sep 11.
Let's not start knee jerk reactions to an issue not properly investigated. An FA in the cockpit may have prevented it who knows but my wedding ring may also prevent bear attacks. You never know.
Bomb proof doors - result of sep 11. This accident - a result of the reaction to sep 11.
Let's not start knee jerk reactions to an issue not properly investigated. An FA in the cockpit may have prevented it who knows but my wedding ring may also prevent bear attacks. You never know.
Nah, its the bear tax/patrol. Haven't seen a bear yet! 
If we include GA that number gets even smaller
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Number of murder suicides? Comparably tiny.
Are pilots more predisposed than others to kill their passengers?
Mickjoebill
Where I work the flight Attendant is required to enter the Flight Deck when one of the pilots leave. Our ballistic doors however do not have any sort of access from outside, so that makes perfect sense.
2Plus, try not to get too precious. I think you'll find Biggles 84 was taking a swipe at the disgusting way many Cadetships are administered rather than the Cadets themselves. He also makes a very good point about expectations and reality. I can recall a number of instances during my time in G/A when the reality of this game became more than an aspiring airline pilot could bear. At least 2 of these ended in smoking holes. Fortunately casualties among the innocent were light. I think it's safe to say that everyone who survived the G/A experience and eventually ended up in the RHS of an airliner would by that time had their eyes well and truly opened.
God knows what sort of deprivation and personal anxiety the failed Jetstar/New Zealand, cadet scam would have bestowed on the naïve candidate until the AFAP stepped in. If the been counters had their way, we would have seen A320 F/O's flying the line for less than $50K P/A. If a debt ridden, overworked, underpaid pilot is something that some airline managements feel is acceptable, then maybe they should take a psych test or two.
It may, or it may not feature as a factor in this case, but I reckon it's something worth looking at.
2Plus, try not to get too precious. I think you'll find Biggles 84 was taking a swipe at the disgusting way many Cadetships are administered rather than the Cadets themselves. He also makes a very good point about expectations and reality. I can recall a number of instances during my time in G/A when the reality of this game became more than an aspiring airline pilot could bear. At least 2 of these ended in smoking holes. Fortunately casualties among the innocent were light. I think it's safe to say that everyone who survived the G/A experience and eventually ended up in the RHS of an airliner would by that time had their eyes well and truly opened.
God knows what sort of deprivation and personal anxiety the failed Jetstar/New Zealand, cadet scam would have bestowed on the naïve candidate until the AFAP stepped in. If the been counters had their way, we would have seen A320 F/O's flying the line for less than $50K P/A. If a debt ridden, overworked, underpaid pilot is something that some airline managements feel is acceptable, then maybe they should take a psych test or two.
It may, or it may not feature as a factor in this case, but I reckon it's something worth looking at.
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 28th Mar 2015 at 01:56.
What if.....the pilot left in the cockpit is as sane as me, but the FA tasked with watching him/her....is as nutty as squirrel poo?
Do FAs have the same medical and emotional "supervision" as flight crew?
Do FAs have the same medical and emotional "supervision" as flight crew?
Eminently sensible words here from Nathan Safe. I am sure QF and JQ at least will give him their full support but please look after each other. Fear of retribution and punishment is the last thing an anguised soul needs. 
'Mature approach' to pilot mental health needed after Germanwings crash, union says | afr.com
'Mature approach' to pilot mental health needed after Germanwings crash, union says | afr.com
Good point
Hey, remember the Air New Zealand Captain who recently locked the FO out of the flight deck for a while because he was upset at him?
Maybe they should have 'knee-jerked' on that one, given that, right there we had a prelude to this kind of thing turning bad.
Anyways, as if our status needed to be lowered from 'glorified bus driver' to potential mass murderer...... Just lovely!
Hey, remember the Air New Zealand Captain who recently locked the FO out of the flight deck for a while because he was upset at him?
Maybe they should have 'knee-jerked' on that one, given that, right there we had a prelude to this kind of thing turning bad.
Anyways, as if our status needed to be lowered from 'glorified bus driver' to potential mass murderer...... Just lovely!
In every profession in every culture there will always be unbalanced individuals who fool all the behavioural experts and their peers - often for years before either snapping in an instant, or executing a long term plan.
Who among us has not met at least one pilot we thought a bit wacko, or simply down in the dumps, but never did anything about it? If a colleague shows for duty reeking of booze, it's easy enough to identify and to not report it would be criminally negligent. But wacko or depressed? If the trick cyclists can so often miss it, what are our chances of recognising an impending problem?
The ultimate solution is the pilotless airliner. We already have the technology to do it.
Assign four or five geeks to control each aircraft to prevent any one geek from playing silly buggers with the remote. Put them in a concrete bunker to keep the bad guys out.
Compared with flying on certain carriers in certain parts of the world, I would feel a lot safer in a properly designed and operated drone. Recent accidents where pilots are implicated can only accelerate development and eventual public acceptance of remotely controlled flight. It will never be 100% foolproof but give it another 25 years and it will be sufficiently safe to make today's safety statistics look fairly ordinary.
In the short term, get rid of that dangerous door lock. El Al and Iran Air were at least two airlines exposed to a terrorist risk long before 9/11 and their preventative measures were extremely effective. It provided gainful employment for large gentlemen wearing bulky suits strategically seated around the cabin.
It would have the added advantage of curbing passenger rage and bogans behaving badly, too.
Who among us has not met at least one pilot we thought a bit wacko, or simply down in the dumps, but never did anything about it? If a colleague shows for duty reeking of booze, it's easy enough to identify and to not report it would be criminally negligent. But wacko or depressed? If the trick cyclists can so often miss it, what are our chances of recognising an impending problem?
The ultimate solution is the pilotless airliner. We already have the technology to do it.
Assign four or five geeks to control each aircraft to prevent any one geek from playing silly buggers with the remote. Put them in a concrete bunker to keep the bad guys out.
Compared with flying on certain carriers in certain parts of the world, I would feel a lot safer in a properly designed and operated drone. Recent accidents where pilots are implicated can only accelerate development and eventual public acceptance of remotely controlled flight. It will never be 100% foolproof but give it another 25 years and it will be sufficiently safe to make today's safety statistics look fairly ordinary.
In the short term, get rid of that dangerous door lock. El Al and Iran Air were at least two airlines exposed to a terrorist risk long before 9/11 and their preventative measures were extremely effective. It provided gainful employment for large gentlemen wearing bulky suits strategically seated around the cabin.
It would have the added advantage of curbing passenger rage and bogans behaving badly, too.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 28th Mar 2015 at 07:01.
No, that's not going to be the answer to current safety concerns, it would simply open other cans of worms we have not thought of yet.
Maybe **** does just happen ....it's just a part of life and you can't wrap everyone in fluffy cottonwool
Maybe **** does just happen ....it's just a part of life and you can't wrap everyone in fluffy cottonwool
'These men are expected to be beyond human': pilot health warning
CEOs, beancounters and the odd ex PM have worked tirelessly to de-professionalise the industry with the result that most people we slide into a cockpit with would give it up in a heartbeat if they could.
Management types make us all out to be suck cu#ts for expecting a decent salary, some time off with family, and God forbid, a bit of professional courtesy. Look after one another and (secretly) seek help if you need it.
CEOs, beancounters and the odd ex PM have worked tirelessly to de-professionalise the industry with the result that most people we slide into a cockpit with would give it up in a heartbeat if they could.
Management types make us all out to be suck cu#ts for expecting a decent salary, some time off with family, and God forbid, a bit of professional courtesy. Look after one another and (secretly) seek help if you need it.
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About 2 yrs ago when a Capt was removed from a cockpit In Australia suspected of being under the influence, I posted a comment at about number 10 on the subject.
I made the comment about the denial of mental health issues in this industry and the often link with depression and substance abuse etc. No names, no companies mentioned, and definitely no "I have the answer" opinions made by me in any shape or form, or so I thought?
Over the next few hrs, about 5 comments were made, mostly in support of the denial factor with this issue within our industry.
By mid morning next day - my initial post and the 5 comments all gone, like a fart in a strong wind.
There lies the problem, denial.
Therefore, I believe this post has about as much chance of survival as a snow flake in hell like the last one 2 years ago, by sunset Sunday.
That's life.
Due to the suspected lifetime ban on me now on all my posts, I bid you farewell and will reappear on this site over the next year as . . . huge . . . mongrel . . . . pilot, or something similar!
What absolute rubbish!! 
Why do you think you are "special"? A self proclaimed Martyr perhaps?
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...rofession.html
http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-...fluence-6.html
33 posts soft deleted - none by you! Thread finally locked as it had lost it's way and become irrelevant after 102 posts.
No one is singled out for "special attention", not even you!
I suggest a Bex and a long lie down until reality returns!!
Tail Wheel
Forum Moderator
I made the comment about the denial of mental health issues in this industry and the often link with depression and substance abuse etc. No names, no companies mentioned, and definitely no "I have the answer" opinions made by me in any shape or form, or so I thought?
Over the next few hrs, about 5 comments were made, mostly in support of the denial factor with this issue within our industry.
By mid morning next day - my initial post and the 5 comments all gone, like a fart in a strong wind.
There lies the problem, denial.
Therefore, I believe this post has about as much chance of survival as a snow flake in hell like the last one 2 years ago, by sunset Sunday.
That's life.
Due to the suspected lifetime ban on me now on all my posts, I bid you farewell and will reappear on this site over the next year as . . . huge . . . mongrel . . . . pilot, or something similar!
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Due to the suspected lifetime ban on me now on all my posts,..."
Why do you think you are "special"? A self proclaimed Martyr perhaps?
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...rofession.html
After being a PPRuNe member for 14 yrs, this is only the 3rd post I have started so I expect this one to disappear like a fart in a strong wind just like the other 2?
33 posts soft deleted - none by you! Thread finally locked as it had lost it's way and become irrelevant after 102 posts.
No one is singled out for "special attention", not even you!
I suggest a Bex and a long lie down until reality returns!!
Tail Wheel
Forum Moderator