Jetstar Second Officer Plans
S/O?
Following the S/O discussion here. What is the function of the proposed JQ S/O.?
In my European airline an S/O is purely a rank for pay purposes. After a period of time one progresses to the F/O pay scale.
All S/O are fully trained as P2 on type and can Join any fleet if joining with the required experience, but would normally be posted to two crew Shorthaul type, progressing to the two crew wide body Longhaul ops 777/744/787 etc after gaining at least a couple of years smaller jet time. Usually longer due company seniority.
New S/O joining straight out of flight school with 200 odd hours would do 50 or so sectors u/s before released on the Bus/ 737 and some years ago the B757, and would not be rostered with a new Capt. for first 6 months.
We don't have cruise only pilots, on long haul trips needing in flight rest, all augmented crews are fully qualified as P2 on type.
In my European airline an S/O is purely a rank for pay purposes. After a period of time one progresses to the F/O pay scale.
All S/O are fully trained as P2 on type and can Join any fleet if joining with the required experience, but would normally be posted to two crew Shorthaul type, progressing to the two crew wide body Longhaul ops 777/744/787 etc after gaining at least a couple of years smaller jet time. Usually longer due company seniority.
New S/O joining straight out of flight school with 200 odd hours would do 50 or so sectors u/s before released on the Bus/ 737 and some years ago the B757, and would not be rostered with a new Capt. for first 6 months.
We don't have cruise only pilots, on long haul trips needing in flight rest, all augmented crews are fully qualified as P2 on type.
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Why would they use cadets when they can get old mate from GA to sign on the SO dotted line like they do at Virgin?
They no longer need cadets, direct entry is now a lottery, FO or SO, it all depends on their requirements at the time.
They no longer need cadets, direct entry is now a lottery, FO or SO, it all depends on their requirements at the time.
The need for a new S/O rank should be an occasion for full disclosure for any new hire. Jetstar has entered into the mature phase of its build-up. It will henceforth only have incremental capacity increases, as it has pretty much saturated the domestic market, and has little remaining scope for single sector markets.
So, from a young, enthusiastic game changer, the airline has morphed into...a legacy carrier. Without all that pesky pilot income to go with it. The incumbent captains and F/Os are all pretty young by industry standards. Promotion will, absent a wholesale exodus, be stagnant for a generation. Welcome to the world of the QF mainline pilot, career progression stalled for ten years.
Some people think that JQ may indeed enjoy a growing 787 fleet, with expansion into Europe. Who knows? How many Alan Joyces do you think you'll see in one career? Kerry Packer only saw one Alan Bond, but that was enough. Maybe you'll get lucky, but when reality bites, there will be ugliness.
(The LCC model doesn't seem to work too well on most long haul, and not at all on two sector long haul into Europe. Even the really low cost LCCs like Air Asia X and Scoot can't make that model work, and they enjoy geographical advantages that JQ does not. )
So, from a young, enthusiastic game changer, the airline has morphed into...a legacy carrier. Without all that pesky pilot income to go with it. The incumbent captains and F/Os are all pretty young by industry standards. Promotion will, absent a wholesale exodus, be stagnant for a generation. Welcome to the world of the QF mainline pilot, career progression stalled for ten years.
Some people think that JQ may indeed enjoy a growing 787 fleet, with expansion into Europe. Who knows? How many Alan Joyces do you think you'll see in one career? Kerry Packer only saw one Alan Bond, but that was enough. Maybe you'll get lucky, but when reality bites, there will be ugliness.
(The LCC model doesn't seem to work too well on most long haul, and not at all on two sector long haul into Europe. Even the really low cost LCCs like Air Asia X and Scoot can't make that model work, and they enjoy geographical advantages that JQ does not. )
Thread Starter
I think they Have a decent pool of cadets waiting that they're still promising a commitment to.
But year will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe DE for FO & Cadet for SO positions
But year will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe DE for FO & Cadet for SO positions
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Australopithecus makes an interesting point. I think those who dream of a grand pan-European JQ expansion may be disappointed. 1 Alan Joyce is quite enough thank you. Good craic.
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QF will be recruiting S/Os soon
If I were a GA, or regional, pilot looking to move to a jet, I would be sitting on my hands for a few months.
Indications are the Qantas Mainline will need to start recruiting by the end of 2016. This is independent of any decision to buy 787s and will be needed just to cover retirements and natural attrition.
If, as is expected to be the case, 787s are ordered then the numbers needed will be significant.
I look forward to a period of sustained growth. Remember 8-10 years ago we were recruiting 8/month. Every indication is that this will be required.
If I were mulling over a career with JQ, then keep an ear to the ground. QF would be a far better prospect.
Indications are the Qantas Mainline will need to start recruiting by the end of 2016. This is independent of any decision to buy 787s and will be needed just to cover retirements and natural attrition.
If, as is expected to be the case, 787s are ordered then the numbers needed will be significant.
I look forward to a period of sustained growth. Remember 8-10 years ago we were recruiting 8/month. Every indication is that this will be required.
If I were mulling over a career with JQ, then keep an ear to the ground. QF would be a far better prospect.
Which raises the question about the agreement between QF and JQ pilot transfers. Not that I foresee a flood of transfers, but would new hire vacancy positions be available to all current JQ pilots? And how does $70K/yr new hire money compare to the lowest JQ pay?
Thread Starter
Yeh surely they won't be taking too many JQ guys into Qantas, means double hiring. I have heard that JQ will be looking to fill those new SO positions that are in the EBA towards the end of this year anyone else heard similar?
makes sense with the rest of the 787's coming on.
makes sense with the rest of the 787's coming on.
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It would be good if QF managed to turn its fortunes around but whilst you pay 50 to 100% above the your competitors in the international space it just isn't going to happen.
The only area where the International business has had success is where you don't have any competition - the Pacific. Where for one reason or another the US carriers have decided not to compete in any serious manner
Ok a $1 billion profit, largely it was just a fluke , getting lucky on falling fuel prices. The international division is still losing a bomb, what does QF have daily service to HK & Sing from each of Melb, Syd & Bris . Whilst I SIA / Cathay have three or four daily flights. Token QF run from Syd to Shanghai & BKK.
All this big talk about 777s & 787s , QF Int are that far behind their competitors it just doesn't matter. Geriatric , slow thinking , slow moving FAs , who act like they are waiting for Hollywood to call, old clapped out planes with entertainment systems the size of an iphone.
Even the "second tier" carriers such as Thai have 787s, Vietnam Airlines having A350s / 787s , these guys have overtaken you.
The narrow body guys are only doing less than 600 hours a year, hundreds of people on LWOP.
Pilot recruitment to QF - just wishful thinking
The only area where the International business has had success is where you don't have any competition - the Pacific. Where for one reason or another the US carriers have decided not to compete in any serious manner
Ok a $1 billion profit, largely it was just a fluke , getting lucky on falling fuel prices. The international division is still losing a bomb, what does QF have daily service to HK & Sing from each of Melb, Syd & Bris . Whilst I SIA / Cathay have three or four daily flights. Token QF run from Syd to Shanghai & BKK.
All this big talk about 777s & 787s , QF Int are that far behind their competitors it just doesn't matter. Geriatric , slow thinking , slow moving FAs , who act like they are waiting for Hollywood to call, old clapped out planes with entertainment systems the size of an iphone.
Even the "second tier" carriers such as Thai have 787s, Vietnam Airlines having A350s / 787s , these guys have overtaken you.
The narrow body guys are only doing less than 600 hours a year, hundreds of people on LWOP.
Pilot recruitment to QF - just wishful thinking
You still standing flyboat? Or have you managed to blow both feet off with your shotgun.
I just looked, as a lazy narrow body driver, my 12 month running total is 794 hours. And I've just looked at a mates roster from virgin, whose flying their 330, and lets just say the numbers are embarrassing if you want to compare both camps.... In QF's favour for the more optimum use of crews.
Stick to the facts.
I will buy the first round if Qantas aren't recruiting within 18 months.
I just looked, as a lazy narrow body driver, my 12 month running total is 794 hours. And I've just looked at a mates roster from virgin, whose flying their 330, and lets just say the numbers are embarrassing if you want to compare both camps.... In QF's favour for the more optimum use of crews.
Stick to the facts.
I will buy the first round if Qantas aren't recruiting within 18 months.
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Things were so pleasant around here with FBN banned.
I thought a probation period on return would have been appropriate.
If so, I would have thought his instantaneous trolling would result in an instantaneous ban. Cmon mods, get rid of this twit permanently.
This forum is supposedly for professional pilots, not vitriolic wannabes with a chip on both shoulders.
I thought a probation period on return would have been appropriate.
If so, I would have thought his instantaneous trolling would result in an instantaneous ban. Cmon mods, get rid of this twit permanently.
This forum is supposedly for professional pilots, not vitriolic wannabes with a chip on both shoulders.
Thread Starter
Yeh wow, that went so far off topic FBN, I had to check i was still in the same thread. 
Even if QF weren't hiring,
I've seen JQ pilot average hours are creeping up so new hiring soon on narrows anyway maybe. But i figure they'd be wanting to utilise the opportunity for cheaper SO's (instead of 2x FO's on long flights) when they can, seems when the new frames come on would be the time to do it.
Even if QF weren't hiring,
I've seen JQ pilot average hours are creeping up so new hiring soon on narrows anyway maybe. But i figure they'd be wanting to utilise the opportunity for cheaper SO's (instead of 2x FO's on long flights) when they can, seems when the new frames come on would be the time to do it.
Jetstar hours going up? Wait til most of the mou guys exit stage left.
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Another thread that has lost it's way with the BS factor way above acceptable standards! Closed by popular choice.