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Start of use of 767 on domestic routes by QF?

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Start of use of 767 on domestic routes by QF?

Old 28th Jan 2015, 05:33
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Start of use of 767 on domestic routes by QF?

How long after the acquisition of TAA/Australian did Qantas start using their 762/763 fleet on domestic flights alongside the 737 and A300?

I'd also be interested to know when TAA Flight Attendants were trained on the 767 fleet.
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Old 28th Jan 2015, 10:44
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Domestic 767's

If memory serves me correctly it was 6 years after the 'merger' in Sep 1998 when the A300's were sold off that a number of B767-200's were allocated to domestic flying. It was a considerable time later when B767-300's took regular domestic services.
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Old 28th Jan 2015, 11:45
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Nah, much earlier than that. I left the 767 in 1995 and we were doing a lot of domestic flying by then.
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Old 28th Jan 2015, 12:09
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The merger happened in September '92 and as tank engine points out it was already flogging around domestically in significant numbers by '95. If I had to put money on it I'd suggest it was early to mid '93. QF 767 pilots at the time were MUCH cheaper than 737 crews domestically.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 01:36
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QF 767 pilots at the time were MUCH cheaper than 737 crews domestically.
Now THAT has created significant confusion in Madame's household of aviators. "Please explain"
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 02:16
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fish

The 737 hourly pay rate at the time was 25-30% more than the 767 credit hour rate. In a given 8 week roster period we would fly about 140-145 hours and get paid 160. They'd fly 145 and get paid 145. If our pay rate was (say) $100/ hour that meant we got paid $16000 for the 8 weeks. The 737 equivalent pay rate was $125- $130. They got paid more than us for the same flying..... and the 767 carried 30-70 more passengers depending on the config.

As another example, I remember one QF management pilot encouraging us to consider operating under the SH award as 'it would be better'. My response was 'sure.... as long as we get the same hourly rate as the A300 crew' (which I think was a bit more than 30% more than the then 767 credit hour rate... it was certainly more than the 737 rate at the time). He withdrew that line of argument.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 04:19
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My first 'domestic' sector on the 767 was MEL-OOL on 2nd November 1993.

I'd been an F/O on the jet for a few years before that with no other domestic sectors other than the tail end or beginning of an international service (e.g.: SYD-BNE-POM-BNE-SYD), so I'd be surprised if we started much before that.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 09:04
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737 pilots getting paid more? How could that be I woner? (Sarcasm button off)
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 09:11
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Regardless of the hourly rate and hours per roster the key point is 737 have always done much more stick hours than any Longhaul fleet, thus the higher hourly rate. Hell the hours are low and I am sticking 800 per annum atm. No Longhaul fleet really gets close. There's hours and Real hours...
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 09:25
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I clearly recall travelling as a passenger on a QF 767 SYD-OOL in June 95.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 12:49
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Regardless of the hourly rate and hours per roster the key point is 737 have always done much more stick hours than any Longhaul fleet,
You're absolutely right AoA. Back when I started flying domestically in '97 I'd get 18 days off in 56, fly 140-145 hours and get paid 160 which was still less than a 737 pilot for the same stick hours. Many inefficient days in there for the 767.

Meanwhile, my mate who went to the 737, actually flew 82-85 hours 11 months of the year. Thus he was earning not only 20-30 percent more than me on the hourly pay rate but flying an extra 15% flying hours too. Thus his take home pay was significantly more than mine.

Of course, most 737 drivers these days would kill to be flying 80+ hours per month.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 23:30
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Originally Posted by keg
Of course, most 737 drivers these days would kill to be flying 80+ hours per month
A month or 28 days? A subtle but important point as it represents a ~8% difference.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 00:13
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I don't think they'd be fussed at the moment. Anything with an 8 in front of it would be a lot better than what they're currently doing.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 02:59
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Not so Keg, money isn't everything.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 04:12
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Returning to the topic, I ran it past historian Gordon Reid who worked in TN/QF ops and he advises as follows:

28/03/93 there was a timetabled interchange of aircraft between Qantas and Australian so that could be the date we are looking for.

On that day VH-EAM operated TN530/461/42/45 SYD-OOL-SYD-PER-SYD

VH-EAN operated TN8 SYD-PER and VH-TJK operated QF21/22 MEL-SYD-MEL.

In 1992 there were Qantas aircraft operating TN flights but on an ad hoc basis.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 09:15
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28/03/93 there was a timetabled interchange of aircraft between Qantas and Australian so that could be the date we are looking for.

On that day VH-EAM operated TN530/461/42/45 SYD-OOL-SYD-PER-SYD

VH-EAN operated TN8 SYD-PER and VH-TJK operated QF21/22 MEL-SYD-MEL.

In 1992 there were Qantas aircraft operating TN flights but on an ad hoc basis.
Agreed FBF.

Clearly remember departing a 762 operating as "Australian 8", not sure if this was the call sign used or reverted to the A/C rego as it was at the time.
The date I'll take your word on.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 19:28
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As an aside, I remember a QF 767 driver having a bit of trouble with reverting to the aircraft rego as callsigns for domestic sectors. It went something like:

"Tower, Golf Oscar Delta.... ahhh Oscar Golf Delta."

Freudian slip, I'm sure!
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 08:50
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From James Strong's comments on page 3 of the QANTAS/AUSTRALIAN timetable effective 28 March 1993:

"Effective from Sunday, March 28, the timetable introduces the progressive interchange of aircraft within our enlarged fleet, allowing us to offer customers a greater choice of flights.
We are scheduling Qantas Boeing 767 aircraft to provide additional frequencies on long-haul Australian Airlines routes between Sydney-Perth and Sydney-Cairns. Offering a three class service in a wide-body aircraft, these flights operate to and from domestic terminals in each city."
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