All Qantas Short Haul and Jetstar Pilots
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If you think AWOTE is a measure of inflation then I'd hate to think what marks you got in high school economics. CPI IS a "basket of goods such as utilities, school fees, insurance and housing"... Good lord. No wonder Joyce and co aren't scared of pilots
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Who really cares?! It's all economic mumbo jumbo, with no real relevance to every day life, despite what they would have you believe.
NZ is supposed to have a 'rock star' economy going by the economic indicators. Even Mr Hockey wandered over to take a look. But tell that to the average man on the street who is struggling to put sufficient food on the table, and he'll probably laugh in your face!
NZ is supposed to have a 'rock star' economy going by the economic indicators. Even Mr Hockey wandered over to take a look. But tell that to the average man on the street who is struggling to put sufficient food on the table, and he'll probably laugh in your face!
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Right.
So if CPI was running at 6%, there would be no pilots on here pointing to CPI and saying we are being ripped off? No, of course not! We would never just use arguments when they suits us and write them off when they don't!
So if CPI was running at 6%, there would be no pilots on here pointing to CPI and saying we are being ripped off? No, of course not! We would never just use arguments when they suits us and write them off when they don't!
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I'm pretty sure I've read the same books as you but in the words of a famous actor "they're the wrong fcuking books".
CPI does not represent the cost of standard of living.
And for what it's worth, the last 6mths CPI does not represent what a 4 year EBA should be voted on
CPI does not represent the cost of standard of living.
And for what it's worth, the last 6mths CPI does not represent what a 4 year EBA should be voted on
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I'm pretty sure you haven't and your comment that AWOTE is a measure of inflation makes that clear.
And if "CPI does not represent the cost of standard of living" please tell me what does.
And if "CPI does not represent the cost of standard of living" please tell me what does.
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Ah, the classic "back-pedalling" trick. I won't point out your spelling mistakes but it is getting late on a Thursday. You have presented that the latest 6mth CPI should persuade employees to accept an 18mth pay freeze on the basis that it isn't really a pay freeze at all because CPI is currently 2.3%. Correct? And I suppose the assumption in your argument will be that CPI will remain at that level for 4 years, correct?
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No. I presented the last 12 months CPI and then made the point that it was below the 3% pay rises on offer when the freeze does not apply. I did that to make the point that it isn't necessarily an '18 month wage freeze' at all and may end up being something less. Then you turned up and tried to say that AWOTE is a measure of inflation, which it is certainly not. Then you also said I should consider a 'basket of goods', which is exactly what CPI is.
It's all been downhill from there
It's all been downhill from there
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The basket of goods that represents CPI is not the basket of goods that costs The average family. There is plenty of evidence of that.
That is why the benchmark pay rise is 3%
That is why an 18mth pay freeze is benchmarked against that.
But you already knew that didn't you?
So you are only here being paid a crap wage by your employer to stir up **** on a chat room for baby sitting dollars, right?
That is why the benchmark pay rise is 3%
That is why an 18mth pay freeze is benchmarked against that.
But you already knew that didn't you?
So you are only here being paid a crap wage by your employer to stir up **** on a chat room for baby sitting dollars, right?
Lotsa, why don't you have a peek at the weighting that the Bureau of Statistics assigns to the various elements of the basket. The official CPI does not accurately reflect the basket that a typical "middle class" family would be concerned about. Education for example. Typically 7% annually, which should be enough to skew the numbers, but it never does because of the small representation in the assumptions and the sample population.
If the true CPI was flat then the reserve bank would have failed in its stated goal to maintain inflation around 3%. Since that has been expressed as national goal, who are we to argue for less than 3%?
If the true CPI was flat then the reserve bank would have failed in its stated goal to maintain inflation around 3%. Since that has been expressed as national goal, who are we to argue for less than 3%?
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Thanks for the top tips, gents, but I've seen plenty of the CPI basket mix and how it has changed over the years as part of my macro studies at business school. 7% on education may not be what you pay, but it is extremely close to what the average household pays. I guess not everyone chooses to spend their money on expensive private schools? I never said CPI was "flat" so I have no idea why you wrote "If the true CPI was flat..."
As for the RBA target, it's actually 2-3%. not 3%.
RBA: Inflation Target
Sure, CPI is not perfect. But it's a hell of a lot more relevant than AWOTE if you're going to discuss a pay freeze and its impact.
Derfred, I'd be happy to see your "plenty of evidence" why pay rises are "bench marked" (by who?) against 3%. I guess no one has told Borghetti that in his latest offers to staff!
As for the RBA target, it's actually 2-3%. not 3%.
RBA: Inflation Target
Sure, CPI is not perfect. But it's a hell of a lot more relevant than AWOTE if you're going to discuss a pay freeze and its impact.
Derfred, I'd be happy to see your "plenty of evidence" why pay rises are "bench marked" (by who?) against 3%. I guess no one has told Borghetti that in his latest offers to staff!
No, but you advanced the hypothetical 6% fantasy, my example of "flat" was a counterpoint.
I do indeed pay an average of 7% higher school fees every year. My point is that private education does not appear with sufficient weight in the statistics, and hence the CPI is skewed too low.
Speaking of the basket...how much do energy costs affect the basket? They really only show up as a fraction of the transportation element, yet electricity, and soon gas, are soaring in price.
For the spectators, the following items comprise the basket, but not all have equal weight, nor are any of them sampled or assessed in a manner which would always reflect your actual expenditures.
Food and non-alcoholic beverages
Alcohol and tobacco
Clothing and footwear
Housing
Furnishings, household equipment and services
Health
Transport
Communication
Recreation and culture
Education
Insurance and financial services.
Qantas angels are surging into as many internet sites as they can the past few weeks...Little Alan feeling insecure?
I do indeed pay an average of 7% higher school fees every year. My point is that private education does not appear with sufficient weight in the statistics, and hence the CPI is skewed too low.
Speaking of the basket...how much do energy costs affect the basket? They really only show up as a fraction of the transportation element, yet electricity, and soon gas, are soaring in price.
For the spectators, the following items comprise the basket, but not all have equal weight, nor are any of them sampled or assessed in a manner which would always reflect your actual expenditures.
Food and non-alcoholic beverages
Alcohol and tobacco
Clothing and footwear
Housing
Furnishings, household equipment and services
Health
Transport
Communication
Recreation and culture
Education
Insurance and financial services.
Qantas angels are surging into as many internet sites as they can the past few weeks...Little Alan feeling insecure?
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You guys can call me a qantas angel all you like. Maybe I'm just offering a different view to the pprune group think. I reckon that most intelligent people enjoy having their views challenged every now and then and I've found this discussion useful. Fact is that a number of false statements have been made here: eg, AWOTE is a measure of inflation and the RBA target is a hard 3%. I prefer to deal with facts. At least you have the decency to admit that 7% is not a good education figure for you because you choose to send your kids to expensive schools. I think you will actually find that private schools fees are given appropriate average weight when you consider the tiny cost of public schooling.
Over and out.
Over and out.
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Originally Posted by lotsa
but it is extremely close to what the average household pays.
Does this prove that every man & every woman has one testicle & one breast?
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No it doesn't, but that doesn't make CPI irrelevant either. All your example does is show that some statistics are sometimes not useful to some applications.
What you need to do is prove why CPI is not relevant to average Jetstar pilots. So far the only reasonable argument is that maybe you all send your kids to private schools that increase their fees well above CPI each year and therefore instead of 7%, education should be waited more like 20% or so. That might have the effect of moving it from 2.3% to 2.5%, but quite possibly still well below 3%.
What you need to do is prove why CPI is not relevant to average Jetstar pilots. So far the only reasonable argument is that maybe you all send your kids to private schools that increase their fees well above CPI each year and therefore instead of 7%, education should be waited more like 20% or so. That might have the effect of moving it from 2.3% to 2.5%, but quite possibly still well below 3%.