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Virgin takes full control of Tigerair

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Virgin takes full control of Tigerair

Old 19th Oct 2014, 21:35
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Brilliant strategy.
Keep Qantas in the dark, forcing them to keep the loss making JQ international up and running to cover the threat of tiger jumping in the market. Borghetti would be crazy to actually do it, but why not announce "we could do anything" just to make JQ jump at shadows...
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Old 19th Oct 2014, 23:03
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Tiger will do business on DPS with widebodies eventually. JQ do it so TT will. Had a mate go up on the 787 business, said it was half the price of Va.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 02:47
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Had a mate go up on the 787 business, said it was half the price of Va.
Are they making money at that price?
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 03:08
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Tiger will not have any wide bodies anytime soon. Jetstar wide body ops,are only profitable when masked by giving much of the operating costs to qantas. When it's not, look at it (Singapore, Hong Kong, Vietnam)
I think you will see the wide bodies stay premium market and eventually expand when the market/industry etc turn to profit. Tiger is for the lower bogan market which is single isle, lower yield markets. Maybe some 737 will got to tiger but when losing 2 million a week there won't be wide bodies for the bogans.
Ps maybe a name change as we'll I think......
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 03:56
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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silverS - yeh lots of bogan flying to ZQN (maybe Kiwi bogans going home ?)


It's crazy for VA/NZ to have 2 nonstop flights BNE/ZQN a few hours apart in winter.


Am sure some of these will go to TT, ro as many bargain hunters, used to do, fly BNE/DUD/BNE as often $300 cheaper than BNE/ZQN/BNE.


Yeh, it's a bitch of a 3.5 hour drive in each direction, but multiply $300 by all the family members. For a family of 2 adults 7 4 kids that could be nearly $2k.


Car fuel is expensive in NZL(around NZD$2.25/litre for unleaded, last time I looked) but not that expensive.


Have done the drive a few times with kids & it's bearable in daylight & can stop on way to eat or look at various things.


AVV/ZQN ?


Point of difference between JQ's MEL/ZQN flights.


Car parking costs at AVV are a lot lower than MEL & people are finally starting to realise that car parking at up to $50/day, adds up & should be considered part of cost of holiday.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 05:42
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Point is JQ do business on their widebodies so one would expect TT to do the same.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 05:45
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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JB has said TT won't be getting any widebodies anytime soon.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 05:51
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Point is JQ do business on their widebodies so one would expect TT to do the same.
people also jump off cliffs mate. i take it you'd follow.

the jq 330 operation has not and does not make money.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 06:16
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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I don't understand why you'd sink so much time and energy into a company that could undermine the brand that you had spent so much time and energy into building for the last few years. Just to have a crack and a poke at Jetstar?
Removing or reducing VA services from routes just so that Tiger can become profitable? I can only imagine the response from a Velocity Platinum/Air New Zild gold elite pax that finds himself on a trans-Tasman Tiger A-320
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 07:32
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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OK Waren
where is the proof about no international profits from JQ international for the last 7 odd years (franchises not included)
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 07:34
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Don't forget ANZ ( not the bank the airline ) have a majority share and a seat on the board at VA now! Maybe they just want the brand gone eventually from NZ shores or to have a minimal footprint on it anyway, and leave the premium market to themselves after all they don't like competition just look at the NZ domestic regional market. ANZ are successful because they operate on routes which they pretty much have to themselves or operate on with codes share partners.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 07:41
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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What's the difference between an NZ A320 & a TT A320 ?


Legroom in economy is about the same.


The TT A320's on average much newer.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 09:53
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Chess,anyone?
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 10:44
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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its widely acknowledged toolish. jqi is backtracking. my opinion is based on my own direct involvement with it. you know as well as i the separate financials arent public. you dont need to be the chief financial officer to know things have never been flash.

if you choose to believe differently then thats your prerogative.

Last edited by waren9; 20th Oct 2014 at 20:30.
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Old 20th Oct 2014, 23:29
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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A slightly different take on this.

Virgin has now effectively had it's flight operations split down the middle. Half the fleet and its crew are VA the other half (approx) known as VAI. VA crew only operate VA aircraft to VA destinations except Bali.
VAI crew will only operate VAI aircraft but still service most destinations (not all) in the Virgin network including Bali.
At every stage we were told this process was not the preferred option of the company, was going to cost a bomb to set up and manage due to the inefficiencies of having crew unable to operate designated aircraft in the fleet and the resultant inefficiencies that would create.
It was originally envisaged that 5-7 aircraft would be dedicated to VAI. That number is now going to be closer to 30.

Would the company go to all the trouble of this JUST to retain the ability to service DPS?
Personally, I don't think so.

We know Virgin has a complicated company structure that allows it legitimate access to foreign investment through what can be best described as loopholes in the system. Could this be yet another layer in the company structure that allows JB to do or have access to something he wants that his competitor can't?

Interestingly the QF/J* comparison to VA/TT is a little bit skewed. TT terms and conditions, whilst well ahead of J*, aren't as worse off when compared to VA as J* is when compared to QF. The VA/VAI operation is covered by the same EBA so no cost savings there. The VANZ integration into VAI (operationally) remains a mystery so will be interesting to see how that pans out.

I guess what I'm suggesting is I don't believe the real reason behind the VA/VAI setup has revealed itself yet, nor has the reason behind the tiger decision.
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 01:59
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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And that my friends, is probably the most prescient reply so far.
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 10:28
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Given the stake in VA by Air NZ, how does having Tiger then operate to/in/out of NZ against ANZ work economically?
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 15:19
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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If you can work out the SIA/ANZ/VA/TR/EY web please let the rest of us know as it's way beyond me.
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Old 21st Oct 2014, 21:52
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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TT will have lower costs than NZ.


TT's utilisation has been hampered by not being able to head to the "east islands".


Think TT's daily utilisation will increase greatly-yes there will have to be some red eyes for this to happen, BUT many NZL airports would welcome ANY flights at all.


eg. Hamilton, Palmerston North, Dunedin to SYD or MEL regions.


Was told that IVC was about to get VA flights few years ago & at last minute that plan was pulled.
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 00:02
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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What's the difference between an NZ A320 & a TT A320 ?


Legroom in economy is about the same.


The TT A320's on average much newer.
BNEA320 the big difference between an NZ A320 and a TT A320 is that when an NZ A320 (or most other airlines for that matter) goes tits up - there is a plan B not too far away. Plan B for TT is usually the next day if your lucky, or find your own way as they don't give a shit. (That may change if VA can now come to the rescue)

It's not the age of the aircraft or the legroom that puts people off TT, it's everything else. Citing high load factors on $5 fares is no justification that everything about TT is just fantastic.

A lot of people have been burned by TT and won't go back, and they spread the word to everyone they know. That's the challenge VA will have to overcome somehow. Yes, people will have short memories when $5 fares are on offer, but how much money is made out of that?

VA gifted to TT the overnight BN-DN-BN which was very popular in Business Class as the times suited a lot of people, and which was mostly full in economy, and now JQ (similar departure times) is the preferred operator among passengers on these flights. TT are slashing fares to try and compete, where VA were doing very well with the fare levels as they were. A total brain explosion from whoever in VA thought that was a good idea
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