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Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG

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Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG

Old 9th Apr 2019, 22:58
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"B737 increasingly being seen in Singapore instead of the B767"

One 767 in for C check with the other to follow, so 737 operating some SIN flights....... understand the 737 went tech in SIN a day or so ago and ended up spending some extra extra time on the ground, might even still be there.


"The pax will just vote with their feet as most of the pilots have"

Reliability has been an issue with Pixie for many many years. And with fleets of such ageing airframes the reliability issues just keep getting worse.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 08:53
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olderairhead is it not an ICAO rule that dictates 65 is the retirement age and not Air Niugin? Little hard to blame them for that, management don’t decide who turns 65 be it National or Expat! And it not like it just creeps up on one.

As for passengers voting with their feet. Good luck with that as far as I’m aware they have no competition on Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, FSM, Solomon’s, Sydney, Fiji, Vanuatu and let’s not talk about FSM.

Anyone know how many pilots are left at PX?
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 11:31
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Originally Posted by Chop Chop
olderairhead is it not an ICAO rule that dictates 65 is the retirement age and not Air Niugin? Little hard to blame them for that, management don’t decide who turns 65 be it National or Expat! And it not like it just creeps up on one.

As for passengers voting with their feet. Good luck with that as far as I’m aware they have no competition on Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, FSM, Solomon’s, Sydney, Fiji, Vanuatu and let’s not talk about FSM.

Anyone know how many pilots are left at PX?
First post Chop Chop!
What position do you hold in Poxie mismanagement?
As we all know ICAO only provide recommendations they do not make rules.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 12:24
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olderairhead,

If you are a signatory to ICAO, which we are in PNG, Australia, New Zealand, come to think of it; most of the world you abide by their decisions.
I really think the post re age 65 was more about internal country Ops, where the age 65 limit does not apply, but PX management want to clear the deck of expat's to make way for under performing National pilots (B737 in water) and so forth. It would be very easy to schedule under 65's for International Ops, and keep the over 65's for Domestic. Hang on a minute, even easier to have no crew over 65.

Tonight the Government Falcon 900 flew POM - CNS - POM using a ANG8091 callsign. Was the F900 carrying out an RPT flight in lieu of a Fokker or Boeing?
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 18:39
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It’s CASA PNG who make rules not ICAO and any country can choose not to apply an ICAO Standard, all they gotta do is file a difference. Australia and PNG have 100s of differences. Whatever is in Part 61 about ages and pairing is the bottom line. Any operator can choose to raise the bar on what the regs mandate.

As far as no competition on some of the international routes in and out of POM goes, pax are certainly using their feet to fly with other carriers and they are circumnavigating PX by travelling longer distances for cheaper tickets and better reliability.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 19:46
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65 WAS the PX retirement age until a recent change last year where for the Domestic Fleets the 65 year PX retirement age was removed (most likley due to an understandable inability to attract pilots). But has the 65 retirement age has been reinstated, or is it just a case of not renewing the 2 year contract of someone not liked?

Chop Chop, yes I am sure management would prefer not to talk about FSM, particularly Flight PX73 to Chuuk.
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Old 10th Apr 2019, 22:35
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Has 65 not always been the international standard for retirement as a Captain? Certainly is in Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong & Japan (maybe 60?). Not only effects PX just ask PNGAir, Hevilift, TropicAir. Dam you PX management for following the rules!

CAR PNG has no limit on age domestically. Contract requirements and company requirements vary. Lots of pilots over 65 operating in ALL companies in PNG and that’s nothing new.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 00:31
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Chop

65 is the ICAO nominated for max age on the flight deck, but it is up to individual countries to nominate an age...keeping in mind that if the country flying to has limited it to 65 you wont be able to go. In fact there is prob no reason, except for CASA PNG, that someone over the age of 65 couldn't do international flights from PNG to AUS and back as Australia allows over 65.

But I don't see anyone on this website stating that PX is not correct in its intent of not crewing international flights with pilots who have past 65 due to ICAO/CASAPNG, just stating that they are getting rid of guys who are turning 65 without giving them a fleet move to domestic where they CAN operate past 65. So your post does not really contribute anything to that we all know.

But PX continue to employ very low time or no PNG experienced or no jet experience to operate the domestic jet operation ("not to mention" 3 guys with a combined training of around 700 hours and weren't checked to line!!) when they have extremely competent pilots with extensive in country experience and significant jet time who PX could certainly use to keep it safety standards up.

So considering that PX has ended it extremely successful cadet system, they will struggle for some time to find guys to adapt quickly to the PNG operations (almost no nav aids, a Fokker fleet that can't do GPS approaches with visual approaches the norm on sectors with Lowest Safes some around the 17,000 foot mark) when they have the guys that are keen for a return to Domestic.

Anyway, at the end of the day it is their train wreck I guess.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 01:50
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I have been informed that another 3 have also been told their services are no longer required.

And none of them have been offered another fleet.

The ECP in action.

Oh and not to mention the one with 21 years service who requested tours so his family could live off shore due to crime and violence in PNG. Request denied. So he's gone as well.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 05:16
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How many pilots have been sacked / resigned / retired so far in 2019?

How many pilots have been hired in 2019?
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 05:43
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CHOP,
its only just April so I guess some resignations will hold on until the 600 plus hour piss poor Kina bonus is paid that came due at the end of March, but I can tell you that there is a list that shows 134 pilots that have left since the 2015 contract was implemented. And I feel that underestimates the number as the list went a period where some names were not added.

INTHENIGHTGARDEN,
not sure of the numbers of guys that got endorsed but did not check, but know of one that was in excess of 300 hrs and two well in excess of 200hrs , and were not even looking at line checks, guess that is what happens when you take inexperience.

One who did pass the Fokker endorsement, but didn't make line training found out the hard way that you don't criticise a third party doing your endorsement training when asked what you thought of how it all went. Suspended the next day, sacked within the fortnight.

He obviously missed the session in the indoctrination that you dont have any rights and never ever offer criticism, even if it is constructive, against the employer or its contractors. No first world defence of truth in a third world country.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 06:34
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Originally Posted by Chop Chop
How many pilots have been sacked / resigned / retired so far in 2019?

How many pilots have been hired in 2019?
There are 1337 posts on this thread that will answer all your questions.
Maybe start to read from post 1 and you will get a proper understanding of what this thread is all about and find answers to your questions.

But I bet you won't.

Maybe here just to stir the pot instead??
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 08:32
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Originally Posted by olderairhead
There are 1337 posts on this thread that will answer all your questions.
Maybe start to read from post 1 and you will get a proper understanding of what this thread is all about and find answers to your questions.

But I bet you won't.

Maybe here just to stir the pot instead??
I am no fan of PX, my past posts stand testament to that but I think I can understand someone like Chop Chop wanting to air his/her feelings.

I lost interest in this thread as it as it was just the same witches, gathered around the cauldron, shrieking at one another creating a very dull echo chamber.

Believe it it or not Airhead there are some who are “happy enough” with their lot at PX and perhaps Chop Chop is airing their feelings. And before you jump in and call them scabs and they’ve just arrived may I just stop you. They have been at PX well before the new contract was passed down but for one reason or another find their current circumstances acceptable.

This thread reminds me of the EK threads over on the ME section. Just the same blokes shouting and screaming at anyone who suggests it might not all be bad and may have a different perspective to their own. Well with Choppie here, this thread has just got a little more interesting and perhaps we should respect other people’s opinions even when heaven forbid they differ from our own.

Last edited by Loud Handle; 11th Apr 2019 at 08:57.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 08:59
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The age 65 is being misunderstood by most.
ICAO ruled NO crew member can be age over 65 on an International flight which is deemed a commercial operation therefore RPT, Charter and so forth.. This applies to Captain, First Officer and any other supplementary flight crew. Read the ruling! If your Country is a signatory to ICAO then the country is committed to enforcing the recommendation/ruling/law. That is why you become a signatory.
This does NOT apply to Domestic operations in any country. In Australia the age discrimination Act prevent a pilot being terminated due to age. Pass your medical and flight checks, keep flying, good luck to you, for Domestic RPT and Charter Ops. Again private flights not affected..
The are no age dispensations issued by CASA to my knowledge, if you know otherwise please let me know, I'm an affected party!
For CASA PNG and Australia to file for an exemption, they would have to lodge the exemption with ICAO in the Hague; current wait time is approx. 18 months, so I have been told. It is not in the interest of Aviation Authorities to pursue such a course of action; so your are own you own, I imagine it would cost a few million $ with no guaranteed outcome.
Read the CASA PNG and AU regs very carefully please.... it does say "flight crew" not just a Captain. I also think that if the Captain is over 60 years of age the F/O must be under 60 years of age (not sure)
I lost my job to age 65 ..... got hauled over the coals by CASA for ignoring it. 80% of my flying was International
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 09:43
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Loud Handle maybe re read my post. With a 3 poster I only suggested he / she read the whole thread rather than being spoon fed.

I couldn't care less who posts here. As I have said before (yes buried in one of those 1337 posts) I am only passing on what is passed on to me because they do not want to post because of fear of threatened repurcussions.

This thread may be of disinterest to you but this is where many others are kept abreast of what is currently happening and a thread where the disgruntled that are left can vent their frustrations.

Do not shoot the messenger.

Time to move on methinks.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 10:23
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LOUD HANDLE,

As the originator of this thread I can say that It was never intended to be a "slagfest": against ANG, but simply a thread that is informative of changes.

PX WAS quite simply a great job, we worked hard, had great training, had great crews on both sides of the flight deck and in the back, GREAT Engineering, supportive management, and the interaction between all departments (Tech, Flight, Engineering, Ground and Management) made a difficult job somewhat easier.

I personally love operating in PNG, love the people and take great pride in getting them safely to where they want to go, and when we can't get them there, take them back to POM and when those pax thank you for your effort is just great.

However a fact is a fact....ANG management has made it such an ordeal that it is simply just a job, and a ****ty one at that

But the most sobering thing that many of us had to deal with is the fact that we were taking bets on when we would lose an airframe. So when the B737 crashed short of the runway in Chuck, not only causing the first PX fatality, but giving several passengers critical injuries we were all surprised as none of us suspected that the B737 Fleet would be the Fleet to do so.

So no, it is not like a EK bashing thread, it is about the pride we HAD in the airline that many of us have been involved in for so many years and the fact that we care the track that Air Niugini was/is being taken by it owners.

BUT as OLD DUDE says, time to move on...my last post on the subject...fill your boots in support of the Management....Ill just keep on checking my bank statement,...and counting the days till I hit the magic 65 years of age.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 10:38
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Originally Posted by NCD
LOUD HANDLE,

.fill your boots in support of the Management.....
NCD, you are clearly too bone idle to check my past posts as if you had you would see I clearly do not support PX management. What I do support is other people’s right to a point of view without it being slagged off because their point of view differs from mine. You guys are so sensitive when an opposing point of view is presented. If it’s so **** there do what I and many others did and leave rather than sit around until you are 65, bitter and twisted. Life is too short.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 11:14
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Let's all kiss and make up and get back on track and stop the thread drift before the mods shut it down.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 12:06
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That’s the spirit, kisses all around from my side! 😘 😄

Last edited by Loud Handle; 11th Apr 2019 at 14:38.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 20:12
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Agree with what Petropavlovsk has stated regarding the ICAO restrictions on international operations by pilots over 65 years of age, but have been told that both Virgin and Air New Zealand ignore this for trans-Tasman and some Pacific flights (possibly POM flights in the case of Virgin, but not certain of that).

If PX are required to comply with this, why would a competitor be allowed to ignore it?
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