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Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG

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Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG

Old 7th Sep 2015, 23:05
  #161 (permalink)  

Victim of a bored god

Join Date: Jan 1996
Location: Utopia
Posts: 6,559
As a Mod and as one with many years PNG experience, I find certain posts on this page childish, ludicrous and objectionable.

AeroRescue lads from Cairns helping PX management by accepting B Scale contracts joining the F100/70 fleet.

If it's true I'm hoping they don't know about the pay & conditions court case..
geeup, precisely what are you insinuating? I know nothing more than what I read on this page but it appears to me and from subsequent posts, an AeroRescue pilot or pilots have secured an advancement in terms of equipment operated and secured their employment into the future, beyond the loss of their own company's rescue contract.

Would you care to explain what is immoral or unacceptable in finding a new job or exactly who they "helped" in PX management?

In 1976 the emerging PNG Government moved towards localisation and that has been a relentless process in the intervening years. Airlines world wide are endeavouring to reduce staffing costs and I suspect it is inevitable that as PX obtain more national pilots with experience on the equipment they operate, expatriate crew numbers will decrease or disappear. Learn to accept what has been inevitable since 1976.

And why shouldn't PNG replace their expatriate crews with PNG nationals? PNG is not a utopia for foreigners nor do you have a perpetual right to live in PNG unless you accept PNG citizenship, wages, terms and conditions.

After 23 years - more than half my life at that time in PNG - I awoke one morning and knew it was time to go and make a new future life in Australia.

You too must contemplate that inevitable decision.

Starting to bring back memories from 89.......
I won't even comment on that statement! Don't even raise that year here!!

Cut the childish cr*p or the thread gets closed!
tail wheel is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2015, 23:41
  #162 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Darwin and PNG
Posts: 1,006
I misread the statement in regards to no expats by November. Additionally it would be totally unfair if there was resentment against new hires.

The AON super is a little gem deal, especially if you can afford to throw a whole 15% in and you are older and stay in it for longer than 5 years.

All in all, I believe that ANG would still be an excellent airline to fly for, with second to none training.

Change is always good.

Last edited by Duck Pilot; 8th Sep 2015 at 00:20.
Duck Pilot is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 00:56
  #163 (permalink)  
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Location: Asia
Posts: 2,376
The Aerorescue pilots probably regard ANG a a temporary option to get some jet time and move on. A year or two up there and then the field opens up considerably in the international job market. With QF new joiners spending seven years in the jumpseat and no sign of any new recruitment, and a seniority list at Virgin that offers the real possibility of the right hand seat for the rest of your career, ANG might not seem too bad an option.

With no career expectations or loyalty involved, a purely business decision can be taken to do a couple of years, get 1000 hours and move on. ANG management have decided to get rid of their expats and they are already leaving enmass for jobs which they may not have been qualified for before they joined.

In these circumstances why not grab the chance for some career advancement, which is sadly lacking in Australia ?
Metro man is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 01:01
  #164 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: QLD
Posts: 498
You have read a lot into my post.
I will clarify MY post and intend on taking the opportunity to respond to a lot of the points that you have raised.
However first I require a couple of SPs to gather my thoughts.
geeup is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 01:06
  #165 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Darwin and PNG
Posts: 1,006
Totally agree Metro Man, could be some good opportunities especially for pilots who may be looking at unemployment or who are currently unemployed, especially for the people effected by the down turn in the FIFO business in northern Australia, or the demise of the SAR contract in the future. We as pilots must support and look after one another, not think for ourselves.

Good luck to all who apply.
Duck Pilot is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 04:55
  #166 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: QLD
Posts: 498
So this is a rumour network and the rumour I heard was AeroRescue people from Cairns to join PX on the F100/70.

I was looking for a true or false.

All new recruits to "B Scale".

Therefore if the above is true which it may not be, do they know PX is in court with regards to industrial action? That is in court with the APA, NAPU & Cadets (220 odd not wanting to accept the above conditions).

If outside help be it AeroRescue people or anyone else it doesn't help the existing pilots case. Note certain website removed the PX job adverts for this reason.

The signing of any "B Scale" contract can only help the PX managements case.

As for the loss of the AeroRescue Cairns I contract I know nothing about.

Does this clarify my post?

Further to that I would like to clear the air with some facts about me with regards to your post:

I understand nationalisation is the future (barking up the wrong tree if this post is about racism as my wife and kids are Papua New Guineans).

Let's not head towards I'm a cadet bashed cause the mentioned wife is an ex cadet all be it not a pilot nor anything to do with PX hence I'm all for cadetships.

As for citizenship I qualify on 2 fronts 1) Wife 2) Over 10 years in PNG (not as long as some but enough to understand a little)

Returning to Oz hasn't been ruled out.

So Expats, Nationals & Cadets (current pilots) are in court / industrial action over pay & conditions and people are will to come in and accept B Scale..

I've been called worse things than childish. I'm just a small fish in a small pond.

Can I suggest instead of closing the thread just ban me perhaps as I feel lots of valid points are being raised.
geeup is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2015, 12:32
  #167 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: airborne
Posts: 89
QUOTE]Learn to accept what has been inevitable since 1976[/QUOTE]

Each PX Expat pilot has been aware of that fact since way back when, and I would think that many may take acceptation to that seemingly patronising sentence.

For information,... historically PX Work Permits were, and even now, are issued on the basis that the holder will train Citizen Pilots to be their replacements. All Expat PX pilots understand that.

Regards the replacements, well the PX Cadets are generally selected exceedingly well, and their training is excellent. So the need for expats will certainly diminish. And the PX cadet program has produced excellent pilots, trainers and checkers.

There is obviously still a need for expats (the current intake indicates that) due to there quite simply being a lack of "home grown" Pilots to fill the need.

However, the last few pages has not been about cadets or Expat replacements, etc, it is about what is happening in PX atm.

Geeup sums it very well. it is about an Industrial dispute which has led both the Citizen and Expatriate Pilots taking unprecedited Court Action against PX Management,

PX Management treats all it pilots equally, ..equally bad!!

As a simple and one off example, Cadets with 7 + years of servitude are now being given their commands on B scale salaries, due to being deemed to be new employees.

So this discussion is not about what is inevitable since 1976, it is about industrial relations.

And to those that insinuate that the PX pilot group will take issue with new hires taking "B" scale job. Well, that is just absolute crap, the PX pilot body is one of the most all encompassing groups around, and to insinuate otherwise is just pure lunacy.

And whist I am no longer part of it (thankfully), I cannot sit back and make no comment on some of the crap that has been posted on this subject.
balusnomore is offline  
Old 9th Sep 2015, 08:34
  #168 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Darwin and PNG
Posts: 1,006
Industrial issues relating to pilots in PNG is fought with danger given the safety implications if any decision goes the wrong way for the pilots.

The sooner there is a resolution in the courts the better.

Wheelie, don't close this thread or ban people as all the contributors have a genuine vested interest, even if we do say some stupid things from time to time.
Duck Pilot is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2015, 11:40
  #169 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Aus
Posts: 720
The wheels are turning slowly in the PNG court system. The hearing is delayed until.......................??
olderairhead is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2015, 22:25
  #170 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Downunder
Posts: 17
Cool Industrial action

I think you must have hit a raw nerve.Dont mention the war.
Sicofit is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2015, 11:00
  #171 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Aus
Posts: 720
Latest word from up North is you have to brown nose the EMFO to get a command on the F100.
Commands being given out of seniority with no bypass pay.
Also no letters saying why you were bypassed.
It only gets better.
olderairhead is offline  
Old 14th Oct 2015, 21:07
  #172 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Aus
Posts: 720
Latest word via Kundu is Supreme court case has been listed for the end of October for the long awaited decision.

On top of this another pilot who was terminated for not signing the new contract has commenced private proceedings against PX.

And those expats that have/are joining LINK PNG are definitely on B scale and are not being given a seniority number. New cadets do get a number.
olderairhead is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2015, 03:49
  #173 (permalink)  
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I see they are advertising on seek for a gm
troppo is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2015, 03:25
  #174 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Aus
Posts: 720
Supreme Court case is on today. Will be interesting to hear the result.
olderairhead is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2015, 20:52
  #175 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Aus
Posts: 720
The result is that 3 Supreme Court judges heard final arguments from both parties and their decision will be handed down on 30 October.
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Old 30th Oct 2015, 13:04
  #176 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: airborne
Posts: 89
As described to me, this court case was as a result of an appeal by Air Niugini against a decision by the PNG Courts that allowed the two separate Associations/Unions representing the Pilots of PX and one private person (pilot) to JOINTLY take action against PX.

That appeal by PX was apparently lost today with PX ordered to pay the costs.

The original matter will now proceed back to the original court with the three complainants continuing their proceedings in a joint action against PX.

Not over yet, but a win on the board it would seem.

Older dude may know more.

Good luck guys.
balusnomore is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2015, 13:36
  #177 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 67
So the moderator can be a internet bully when someone says something he personally doesn't like? As I read geeup's post, it is a valid observation, if the remarks hit close to home, get some thicker skin. I find pilots under cutting pilots for B-scale wages to be reprehensible it damages us all and worldwide it will bring down T & C's. I have empathy for the rescue pilots but find another line to support your families trust me PX cares nothing for you.

If you don't like it maybe being a mod on the Professional Pilots RUMOR Network is not for you.
Jobear is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2015, 21:15
  #178 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 66
G'day Jobear, hope everything is going well for you. Tend to agree with you, however I think most outside of PNG would be ill-informed as to what is actually going on up there at the moment which is why these pilots are taking the B scale contract to the detriment of all existing crew. As you would know 74 have left and more to go...things are pretty grim at the moment.
E&H is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2015, 05:38
  #179 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Aus
Posts: 720
Another go pinis on the Vista rooftop with some more resignations just put in.

Seniority is out the window with new commands being out of seniority and no letter of explanation as to why you miss out. And naturally no bypass pay.

Not a happy camp at the moment.

2 more direct entry F/O's on the fokker, level B

The long legal battle continues with the Christmas break coming up.
olderairhead is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2015, 10:49
  #180 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Aus
Posts: 720
Now each crew member is required to chech each others validity of ASIC, Company ID, Pilot Licence, Passport, Medical and Visas before flight and sign a checklist before commencing flight duties.

Seems like the company is incapable of keeping track of these basic details and will blame the operating crew if they do not meet currency.

Begs the question - what will happen to the operating crew if they do not check each others currency - another reason to get rid of someone?

olderairhead is offline  

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