50 Years of Domestic Jets
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: west island
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
50 Years of Domestic Jets
Amongst my small collection of die-cast aircraft models is 727-77 RME. It's in it's 1964 Ansett colour scheme to commemorate it's first landing at Essendon Airport on October16,1964.
50 years ago tomorrow and the the start of Domestic jet operations in Australia. A lot of changes since then !
50 years ago tomorrow and the the start of Domestic jet operations in Australia. A lot of changes since then !
Have some old photos of the first two 727's arriving in Melbourne. Ansett and TAA. And by the flip of a coin Ansett were first to land. Great shot of the two of them overflying before touchdown.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 71
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TAA 727-100
The block time from Sydney to Essendon (Melbourne) was substantially reduced compared to the Vickers Viscounts and to a lesser extent the Lockheed Electras. Flying from Sydney to Melbourne on a lunchtime flight in a TAA B727-100 in November 1964 and the cabin was a lot quieter than the Comet 4. However if you were seated at the rear of the aircraft you had two noisy JT8d engines either side and one mounted up in the tail. Even though I was a primary schoolboy I can still remember the feverish rate at which the air hostesses served the meals. The galley was located in the middle of the cabin. I think the air time was less than an hour. The only other jet airliner that frequented Essendon was the BOAC Comet 4 because of its shorter takeoff and landing performance compared to the B707 and DC8.
TAA called their B727's T Jets and Ansett called their's Fan Jets.
From memory the TAA B727 carried 112 passengers.
TAA called their B727's T Jets and Ansett called their's Fan Jets.
From memory the TAA B727 carried 112 passengers.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was certainly an interesting period.I entered the industry as an apprentice in 1965 and by that stage Qantas was buying their second fleet of B707s.
The domestics were way behind with a mix of pistons,propjets and the new
B727s.
Ben S has an interesting comment in his blog today about the attempt by TAA to fly Caravelles. He seems to say they were dangerous but its not the way I remember them and a quick search looks like they had an hull loss rate of about 8% of the production run which was pretty good for that era.I suspect that the jets of the era all had similar if not worse records.
The early French Caravelles from Noumea that came into Sydney had drogue chutes which had to be retrieved if they were deployed. Lots of fun in the wind while the runway was closed down. Later ones had more conventional ways of stopping methods.
As I remember it, TAA and Ansett ended up with Electras rather than Caravelles which was a far better result and later when the Lockheed scandall broke there was a distinct Australian connection that included the
L188s and C130s.
Many years later I was in Singapore for one of the first airshows there. I was with a group of pilots who were ex Orions and knew the Lockheed reps there.
At the time we were told that Lockheed was considering a stretched Electra for runs like Sydney/Melbourne because the 10 minutes longer flight time was more than off set by the substantailly lower fuel burn per pax.If that had happened they would have made pretty good freighters in later life.
Wunwing
The domestics were way behind with a mix of pistons,propjets and the new
B727s.
Ben S has an interesting comment in his blog today about the attempt by TAA to fly Caravelles. He seems to say they were dangerous but its not the way I remember them and a quick search looks like they had an hull loss rate of about 8% of the production run which was pretty good for that era.I suspect that the jets of the era all had similar if not worse records.
The early French Caravelles from Noumea that came into Sydney had drogue chutes which had to be retrieved if they were deployed. Lots of fun in the wind while the runway was closed down. Later ones had more conventional ways of stopping methods.
As I remember it, TAA and Ansett ended up with Electras rather than Caravelles which was a far better result and later when the Lockheed scandall broke there was a distinct Australian connection that included the
L188s and C130s.
Many years later I was in Singapore for one of the first airshows there. I was with a group of pilots who were ex Orions and knew the Lockheed reps there.
At the time we were told that Lockheed was considering a stretched Electra for runs like Sydney/Melbourne because the 10 minutes longer flight time was more than off set by the substantailly lower fuel burn per pax.If that had happened they would have made pretty good freighters in later life.
Wunwing
The mighty B727. It was faster than the RAAF's front line fighter in 1964; the Vampire.
It was interesting to see the B727-100 operate on the short 17/35 at Essendon for 6 years or so before Tullamarine was opened to domestic operations.
I hear there is a lunch at Essendon Airport on Friday 17 October to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the arrival of the first B727 in Australia (16 October 1964)
It was interesting to see the B727-100 operate on the short 17/35 at Essendon for 6 years or so before Tullamarine was opened to domestic operations.
I hear there is a lunch at Essendon Airport on Friday 17 October to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the arrival of the first B727 in Australia (16 October 1964)
B727 is a great aircraft but:
The RAAF fighter then was the Sabre not the Vampire which was a trainer..Sabre was a transonic aircraft...
It was faster than the RAAF's front line fighter in 1964; the Vampire.
Sabre was a transonic aircraft
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 727 actually cruised faster than the Mirage.
I was taxiing out in DRW from the old terminal when a 2 seat Mirage taxied from the ramp north of the water tower. Couldn't hear his destination (he was on UHF) but think it was Mt Isa, the tower sounded very pleased when they told the pointy nose to hold and let faster proceeding traffic on the same route pass.
The Pointy nose queried this and was informed he had planned at Mach .8 and the 727 at .82.
I once took an empty 727-200 MEL - SYD and used the Mach limit switch to change to the higher Mmo limit and cruised at m0.89.
Those were the days of no speed limits.
I was taxiing out in DRW from the old terminal when a 2 seat Mirage taxied from the ramp north of the water tower. Couldn't hear his destination (he was on UHF) but think it was Mt Isa, the tower sounded very pleased when they told the pointy nose to hold and let faster proceeding traffic on the same route pass.
The Pointy nose queried this and was informed he had planned at Mach .8 and the 727 at .82.
I once took an empty 727-200 MEL - SYD and used the Mach limit switch to change to the higher Mmo limit and cruised at m0.89.
Those were the days of no speed limits.
I hear the B727 Lunch held at Essendon Airport today was well attended with a number of pilots, engineers etc etc in attendance who were involved with the type in the past.
Further info is that a number of former B727 drivers attended the Lunch. Unfortunately all of the inaugural ferry crew are deceased. A Lunch attendee was Dusty Lane a well known ex Ansett pilot who obtained his initial DC3 command at 21 years of age.
TJA 727
I was having a coffee in New York recently when I noticed this postcard advertising the cafe........The cafe is called Bluestone Lane and is, of course, run by a bunch of Aussies! 
Not sure who the footy team is, but at least that's a Sherrin they're holding!
.........and the coffee stain is part of the postcard.....
Not sure who the footy team is, but at least that's a Sherrin they're holding!
.........and the coffee stain is part of the postcard.....
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Devonport Tasmania Australia
Posts: 1,837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pleased to say I was on the observation deck at MEB as a spotty little 8 year old kid to see Juliet Alpha arrive. Major event.
My Dad was a TAA LAME at the time and the roar of reverse thrust was amazing, even to a kid who grew up around the Essendon hangars.
Less than a year later I had my 1st ever flight - MEL SYD return on standby with Dad. Standby was just that in those days. We stood at the rear air stairs and waited util the Hosties checked the number of empties and called us aboard according to the number of empties. I scored a seat in First! Dads push no doubt. My love for the Airline was sealed.
We had the day in Sydney and came back in the rear lounge of Tango Lima Charlie.
What a great Sunday for an 8 year old in the sixties with a ride to Manly on the ferry and a quick visit to the Zoo.
Kids at Toorak Central wouldn't believe me but Dad brought his camere
No - we never lived in Toorak but my Mother taught there.
Great memories and a wonderful "lay you back i n the seat" aeroplane.
I have photos at MEL AMD when she was decomissioned and looking rather sad. It seemed wherever I went around Australia Julie Alpha was there to bring me home. I had to say goodbye to her and a LAME took me out, let me drop the rear airstairs and I thanked her from within.
A beautiful aeroplane and I have wonderful memories of the ground breaking girl.
Best all
EWL
My Dad was a TAA LAME at the time and the roar of reverse thrust was amazing, even to a kid who grew up around the Essendon hangars.
Less than a year later I had my 1st ever flight - MEL SYD return on standby with Dad. Standby was just that in those days. We stood at the rear air stairs and waited util the Hosties checked the number of empties and called us aboard according to the number of empties. I scored a seat in First! Dads push no doubt. My love for the Airline was sealed.
We had the day in Sydney and came back in the rear lounge of Tango Lima Charlie.
What a great Sunday for an 8 year old in the sixties with a ride to Manly on the ferry and a quick visit to the Zoo.
Kids at Toorak Central wouldn't believe me but Dad brought his camere
No - we never lived in Toorak but my Mother taught there.
Great memories and a wonderful "lay you back i n the seat" aeroplane.
I have photos at MEL AMD when she was decomissioned and looking rather sad. It seemed wherever I went around Australia Julie Alpha was there to bring me home. I had to say goodbye to her and a LAME took me out, let me drop the rear airstairs and I thanked her from within.
A beautiful aeroplane and I have wonderful memories of the ground breaking girl.
Best all
EWL
Last edited by Eastwest Loco; 26th Oct 2014 at 13:53. Reason: Don't know where in hell the "thumbs down" came from, but no negatives in these memories.
...so I recently managed to pick up a TAA 727 Economy seat row and the fabric is pretty tatty. Would love to get a roll of the fabric that was used and re-upholster it if possible - any ideas??
The aluminium seat belt clasps were all stamped with the TAA logo (much nicer than the generic blank style today) and the seats could convert into 'business' class by taking out the two central armrests and folding down a section of the middle seat. Pretty nifty idea actually.
The aluminium seat belt clasps were all stamped with the TAA logo (much nicer than the generic blank style today) and the seats could convert into 'business' class by taking out the two central armrests and folding down a section of the middle seat. Pretty nifty idea actually.
Ansett- ANA B727-100 VH-RME Model...
Hey great to see you've got one of those Models!
I happened to commission the production of that Model...
When I'm not working at my main job in the industry, I'm busy running my own small business in which I commission, import and sell my own range of historical Australian Airliner Models. That Ansett- ANA Boeing 727-100 Model is now extremely rare- there were only 300 made- so take care of it.
Anyway, for all those who are wondering what the Model looks like, here are some piccies:
http://imgur.com/a/Tb6AM
Cheers, Gearup.
I happened to commission the production of that Model...
When I'm not working at my main job in the industry, I'm busy running my own small business in which I commission, import and sell my own range of historical Australian Airliner Models. That Ansett- ANA Boeing 727-100 Model is now extremely rare- there were only 300 made- so take care of it.
Anyway, for all those who are wondering what the Model looks like, here are some piccies:
http://imgur.com/a/Tb6AM
Cheers, Gearup.
Last edited by Gearupandorrf; 27th Oct 2014 at 04:12. Reason: Picture
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Botswana O'Hooligan
Fifty years of jet aeroplanes hasn't done much for it now takes longer to go between BN & SY or just about anywhere else because of the "rules." I remember fifty years ago being in stacks over Sydney and other places because there was no ATC radar, not even in many aeroplanes. We had ILS, VAR, DME and ADF, only and gradually wound our way down to the bottom of the stack and made our approach. Fifty years later and with a whole host of every know aid imaginable we are back in holding patterns drilling holes in the sky and burning huge amounts of kero and making approaches at pussycat speeds that makes one long for the old days when jet aeroplanes were built to go fast, and they did.
Can't blame the Jet for that.
Actually maybe you can.......if the damn Jets hadn't become more efficient ( more affordable than 50 years ago ) then the great unwashed wouldn't be traveling as much as they are, hence traffic jams.
Actually maybe you can.......if the damn Jets hadn't become more efficient ( more affordable than 50 years ago ) then the great unwashed wouldn't be traveling as much as they are, hence traffic jams.
VH-TJA (James Cook) had a 'close shave' on 29 Jan 1971 after takeoff at SYD when it struck the tail fin of a CP Air DC8 that was on the runway.
After leaving TAA the ex VH-TJA was operated by Air Florida for approx 7 months before being sold to Continental who operated the aircraft for a further 14 years before being scrapped.
After leaving TAA the ex VH-TJA was operated by Air Florida for approx 7 months before being sold to Continental who operated the aircraft for a further 14 years before being scrapped.