Sunstate EBA 2014
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Vote with your common sense!
Well said BB,
this EBA is about shoring up your rights and entitlements, and you are one of the last CAO 48 people that have that enshrined in their EBA. Don't lose it - it is gold. If the company wants to introduce FMSs, that is between them and CASA. You guys get to benefit both ways; FMS says you can't fly - you can't fly. CAO 48 says you can't fly - you can't fly. They disagree? You can't fly.
Next time you have an early sign-on, look for the off-going JetShaft crew. Do you want to be like zombies?
Download and read the Fair Work Act - it's just like CARs, and if you can't read them, then you shouldn't be where you are. The LAW is the over-riding thing here, and the LAW says that you cannot be disadvantaged unless you agree to it. Draw a line in the sand behind your current EBA, and then get better pay and conditions.
Always remember, from the FWA commissioners' viewpoint, if you vote UP an EBA then that is a show that the majority 100% support it. If you support it less than 100%, vote no.
Qantas can be taken on - I've done it and won. Just remember "yes" means 100% committal and agreeance from you and your (future) family. NO means I'm not totally happy.
Good Luck all, I think you need to think hard on this,
Ned
this EBA is about shoring up your rights and entitlements, and you are one of the last CAO 48 people that have that enshrined in their EBA. Don't lose it - it is gold. If the company wants to introduce FMSs, that is between them and CASA. You guys get to benefit both ways; FMS says you can't fly - you can't fly. CAO 48 says you can't fly - you can't fly. They disagree? You can't fly.
Next time you have an early sign-on, look for the off-going JetShaft crew. Do you want to be like zombies?
Download and read the Fair Work Act - it's just like CARs, and if you can't read them, then you shouldn't be where you are. The LAW is the over-riding thing here, and the LAW says that you cannot be disadvantaged unless you agree to it. Draw a line in the sand behind your current EBA, and then get better pay and conditions.
Always remember, from the FWA commissioners' viewpoint, if you vote UP an EBA then that is a show that the majority 100% support it. If you support it less than 100%, vote no.
Qantas can be taken on - I've done it and won. Just remember "yes" means 100% committal and agreeance from you and your (future) family. NO means I'm not totally happy.
Good Luck all, I think you need to think hard on this,
Ned
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Eastern EBA Update
Hey guys, if you haven't seen Eastern's update from this weekend, jump on the AFAP website and have a squizz.
Company refusing to backdate pay freeze if agreement not reached by NYE.
Company offering nothing to recognise CAO48.1 + FRMS.
Lol.
Company refusing to backdate pay freeze if agreement not reached by NYE.
Company offering nothing to recognise CAO48.1 + FRMS.
Lol.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Rename thread Qantaslink EBAs. Surely changes to work rules are worth a decent percentage. Otherwise why would any pilot vote up an EBA that sees him work more for no pay increase? It stinks of Oldmeadow.
Qantaslink has long been an absolute cash cow for Qantas. I can't see them risking that if the QL crews start parking them. A perfect storm of EBAs!
Qantaslink has long been an absolute cash cow for Qantas. I can't see them risking that if the QL crews start parking them. A perfect storm of EBAs!
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You only have to look at what the company has done to the Sunny engineers.
Exactly like the threats are now. Engineers still on 2009 eba but they had to increase pay to get more engineers to cover increased work/aircraft.
Exactly like the threats are now. Engineers still on 2009 eba but they had to increase pay to get more engineers to cover increased work/aircraft.
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To the guys and gals of Sunnies and Eastern, for god sake show them you have a set and stand up for yourselves! These two documents are the last remotely decent EBA's in the Australian regional Airline industry. Ask yourself, do you really want to work in an industry where you have virtually no rights and crap conditions for life? You'll never get back what you give away, ever!
These agreements are the end game for the regional's here, if they get this the industry is shot. I surely hope you have a good pilot council on this one.
TW
These agreements are the end game for the regional's here, if they get this the industry is shot. I surely hope you have a good pilot council on this one.
TW
CAO48 as it is enshrined in the EA is most definitely the "Elephant" in the room. Make no mistake, the company see the introduction of the FMS as a golden opportunity. Unlike Optimiser it will provide real productivity increases. Like Optimiser it will also drastically change pilots lifestyles, and not for the better either.
The problem is, it will probably be unworkable due to that pesky CAO48.
I know (says management), lets pretend it's just a minor issue and continue to paly hardball. What a bunch of D!ckhe@ds! They should be kissing the pilot group's collective arses about now.
Get ready for some pain QLink management. By underestimating the Union negotiators your FMS is about to become one giant Clusterf#ckl!
Good luck everyone, I reckon you have them by the B@lls. They're just too dumb/arrogant to realise.
The problem is, it will probably be unworkable due to that pesky CAO48.
I know (says management), lets pretend it's just a minor issue and continue to paly hardball. What a bunch of D!ckhe@ds! They should be kissing the pilot group's collective arses about now.
Get ready for some pain QLink management. By underestimating the Union negotiators your FMS is about to become one giant Clusterf#ckl!
Good luck everyone, I reckon you have them by the B@lls. They're just too dumb/arrogant to realise.
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 15th Oct 2014 at 01:50.
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Don't forget there's an umpire!
The Fair Work comissioners hear arguments based upon the law at the time. If you can demonstrate that you have incresed productivity since your last EBA, if you can demonstrate that even CPI increases have not been passed on to you - when they have been to many industries - if you can demonstrate that Alan is singling out employees as a cost-cutting measure, then you can gain something here.
FWA cares not how Alan and his board makes money, nor whether they do or do not. The managements' job is to steer the ship, and if fuel costs went up to $300 a barrel, you would still continue.
To assume that workers costs do not rise is simply bullying tactics, and the simplest of those is "Be thankful that you have a job." I remember one J-shaft EBA when we tied our bonuses to those of QF execs. 747 captain mates in QF got $2000 annual bonus. As an A320 F/O I got $8500. Snouts in troughs, ladies and gentlemen.
If there is a trough - put your snout in. The survival of the company isn't your job, neither should it be your concern. It is the job of the CEO, management, and the board, and IMHO it is about time they got off their collective loathesome spotty behinds and started running an airline!!!
Sheeez! Sorry if I went over the top there, but all I'm saying to you all is think, OK?
Cheers,
Ned
FWA cares not how Alan and his board makes money, nor whether they do or do not. The managements' job is to steer the ship, and if fuel costs went up to $300 a barrel, you would still continue.
To assume that workers costs do not rise is simply bullying tactics, and the simplest of those is "Be thankful that you have a job." I remember one J-shaft EBA when we tied our bonuses to those of QF execs. 747 captain mates in QF got $2000 annual bonus. As an A320 F/O I got $8500. Snouts in troughs, ladies and gentlemen.
If there is a trough - put your snout in. The survival of the company isn't your job, neither should it be your concern. It is the job of the CEO, management, and the board, and IMHO it is about time they got off their collective loathesome spotty behinds and started running an airline!!!
Sheeez! Sorry if I went over the top there, but all I'm saying to you all is think, OK?
Cheers,
Ned
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There are some guys saying to me that we should have a 'unified front' (ala Eastern and Sunstate organising a joint PIA campaign). One must tread very carefully down that road as the umpire may consider that as collusion (which is illegal). If both groups just happen to enter PIA at the same time then that's just a bad coincidence for management 
The whole divide and conquer mantra appears to be not in their favor at present as Qantas have 4 pilot group EBAs up for negotiation and/or vote. Pitting one group against the other isn't going to work for them. Stay strong, and victory is assured.
Vive la Révolution!
Fuel-Off
The whole divide and conquer mantra appears to be not in their favor at present as Qantas have 4 pilot group EBAs up for negotiation and/or vote. Pitting one group against the other isn't going to work for them. Stay strong, and victory is assured.
Vive la Révolution!
Fuel-Off
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1. 4.5% pay cut
2. No over-night allowances
3. Bend over fatigue management so I work 10% more hrs in a given year (for that pay cut)
Awesome, where do I sign?
I think the Union should insist on a DAMP Test before any further negotiations with Management as they are obviously smoking Crack!
2. No over-night allowances
3. Bend over fatigue management so I work 10% more hrs in a given year (for that pay cut)
Awesome, where do I sign?
I think the Union should insist on a DAMP Test before any further negotiations with Management as they are obviously smoking Crack!
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There are some guys saying to me that we should have a 'unified front' (ala Eastern and Sunstate organising a joint PIA campaign). One must tread very carefully down that road as the umpire may consider that as collusion (which is illegal). If both groups just happen to enter PIA at the same time then that's just a bad coincidence for management
The whole divide and conquer mantra appears to be not in their favor at present as Qantas have 4 pilot group EBAs up for negotiation and/or vote. Pitting one group against the other isn't going to work for them. Stay strong, and victory is assured.
Vive la Révolution!
Fuel-Off
The whole divide and conquer mantra appears to be not in their favor at present as Qantas have 4 pilot group EBAs up for negotiation and/or vote. Pitting one group against the other isn't going to work for them. Stay strong, and victory is assured.
Vive la Révolution!
Fuel-Off
If the claims are similar then that really isn't an issue either as long as it's not pattern bargaining and the claims are in line with Fair Work Act requirements eg are 'permitted' matters. Then there is little that can withstand taking protected industrial action.
Last edited by ACT Crusader; 17th Oct 2014 at 01:49.
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Sunstate EBA 2014
Yadot,
If I'm not mistaken the Air France pilots gave up the strike with no gains, and the company pushing ahead with LCC expansion. No idea why they'd give it up. That sure as **** won't be happening in the Rex/EAA/SSA/JQ/QF campaigns. I hope.
If I'm not mistaken the Air France pilots gave up the strike with no gains, and the company pushing ahead with LCC expansion. No idea why they'd give it up. That sure as **** won't be happening in the Rex/EAA/SSA/JQ/QF campaigns. I hope.
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What makes you think EAA would want SSA on board given the history??
Apology: I've been told (by someone I can trust) that "As it was told to me" is simply not correct, so I've deleted what I wrote.
Sorry again for any problems I caused with my post.
DIVOSH!
Last edited by Di_Vosh; 26th Oct 2014 at 08:51. Reason: I was told duff info
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15% you are dreaming DiVosh. I heard it was like 8%. Anyway, Kumar was never going to give Eastern the Q400 as I was told he hated the eastern militarism.
Also the SAME PEOPLE in the pilot council over the years negotiated EBA's with better conditions than Eastern. Maybe they are still there because they keep doing a good job?
Just wanted to clear that up.
Also the SAME PEOPLE in the pilot council over the years negotiated EBA's with better conditions than Eastern. Maybe they are still there because they keep doing a good job?
Just wanted to clear that up.
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The EAA / SSA thing is from yesteryear. It's a topic for reminiscing not debating.
Back to today. No-one AFAIK at EAA is going to sign away CAO48.1 without something else to replace it - money, lifestyle, days off, whatever. No-one at EAA is in a burning rush to get a new EBA signed either. It wouldn't surprise me if nothing much happens for another year or so, when Group HQ might start to take interest. Yawn.
I'm actually encouraged by the terms of the engineers' EBA. It's business as usual with a good dose of common sense on both sides.
Back to today. No-one AFAIK at EAA is going to sign away CAO48.1 without something else to replace it - money, lifestyle, days off, whatever. No-one at EAA is in a burning rush to get a new EBA signed either. It wouldn't surprise me if nothing much happens for another year or so, when Group HQ might start to take interest. Yawn.
I'm actually encouraged by the terms of the engineers' EBA. It's business as usual with a good dose of common sense on both sides.
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Re the EAA SSA Q400 carry-on. I'll go out on a limb and say that only about 20% of current EAA pilots are from that EBA negotiation. Its like '89, except for butterflies.
"No-one AFAIK at EAA is going to sign away CAO48.1 without something else to replace it - money, lifestyle, days off, whatever."
DO NOT TRADE CAO48 FOR ANYTHING.
DO NOT TRADE CAO48 FOR ANYTHING.
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Apologies.
Again, following on from information that I believe to be more accurate than I was told previously, I've deleted this post as well.
DIVOSH!
Again, following on from information that I believe to be more accurate than I was told previously, I've deleted this post as well.
DIVOSH!
Last edited by Di_Vosh; 26th Oct 2014 at 08:52.