Virgin's TigerAir losing $2 million a week
I've flown with Tiger about 8 or so times. Had no problems at all. Departed and arrived on time, they got me where I wanted to go in once piece and didn't lose my bags. Sure I got stung by being a few Kg over on my baggage once, but I paid $29-00 for the ticket.
Sure the terminals, aircraft etc weren't flash. At some ports you may have to walk across the tarmac in the rain rather than have an aerobridge. Who cares, a little bit of water never hurt anyone.
As for inflight catering, I had gourmet food, thanks to the Mrs who packed me a cut lunch. A news paper and the latest copy of wheels magazine meant I was a happy contented chap.
Do you really need the frills on a 1 hr sector?
Sure the terminals, aircraft etc weren't flash. At some ports you may have to walk across the tarmac in the rain rather than have an aerobridge. Who cares, a little bit of water never hurt anyone.
As for inflight catering, I had gourmet food, thanks to the Mrs who packed me a cut lunch. A news paper and the latest copy of wheels magazine meant I was a happy contented chap.
Do you really need the frills on a 1 hr sector?
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"S8" I've said similar things many times amongst these pages about W&O, it's all their fault that we are in this mess today
If they had just stuck with bicycles, the world would be a much more serene & slower place. Windjammers would grace the high seas, the horse would be respected like it was all those years ago:-):-)
Wmk2
If they had just stuck with bicycles, the world would be a much more serene & slower place. Windjammers would grace the high seas, the horse would be respected like it was all those years ago:-):-)
Wmk2
Tiger always was about payback
Do you blokes recall the circumstances in which Tiger originally came to our shores? It was right after Dixon, Joyce & Co at Qantas decided that they would own Singapore with their idiotic JetStar Asia idea (one that has been an open wound ever since, money wise).
Tiger was an ancilliary holding of Temasek holdings, the investment arm of the Singapore government. Tiger was a bitch slap to Qantas for Jetstar.
Fast forward a few years after Tiger shot off both of its own feet courtesy of local managers even more tone deaf than Joyce. After years of losses and being unable to game either the public or CASA, Tiger was in trouble. Enter Virgin, who, under Borghetti, wasn't above continuing the Qantas hubris therapy, albeit on a more limited scale.
I do not think that Tiger was ever planned to make a huge profit or be self-sustaining: it was a strategic move in the both the market place and the head space of its competitors. It continues to be so, but now the losses are getting serious. (Along with, I suspect, Jetstar's. But the JQ P&L situation can only be surmised)
I don't think that anyone of the two players/four brands are making money right now...a hangover from the market share wars and the 65% petard upon which Joyce has hoist Qantas/JQ. The current truce on that front may help that a bit for Virgin and Qantas, but not their LCC offshoots in the near term. Fares and traffic are both too low everywhere right now for that.
Tiger was an ancilliary holding of Temasek holdings, the investment arm of the Singapore government. Tiger was a bitch slap to Qantas for Jetstar.
Fast forward a few years after Tiger shot off both of its own feet courtesy of local managers even more tone deaf than Joyce. After years of losses and being unable to game either the public or CASA, Tiger was in trouble. Enter Virgin, who, under Borghetti, wasn't above continuing the Qantas hubris therapy, albeit on a more limited scale.
I do not think that Tiger was ever planned to make a huge profit or be self-sustaining: it was a strategic move in the both the market place and the head space of its competitors. It continues to be so, but now the losses are getting serious. (Along with, I suspect, Jetstar's. But the JQ P&L situation can only be surmised)
I don't think that anyone of the two players/four brands are making money right now...a hangover from the market share wars and the 65% petard upon which Joyce has hoist Qantas/JQ. The current truce on that front may help that a bit for Virgin and Qantas, but not their LCC offshoots in the near term. Fares and traffic are both too low everywhere right now for that.
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Is unsubstainable because there just isn't the need for four carriers. In the UK we have nearly three times the population, probably 500 million people within two hours in our catchment area but only two LCCs. The aviation infra structure needs looking at as well. Having worked at Tulla it's a disgrace. I used to have to walk from Tulla to Airport West to get a tram. I'm in Manchester now you can get a bus, train tram you name it. Sydney is no better with rip-off train prices. If you make it easy to travel people will. As much as I love Australia, aviation wise they don't half shoot themselves in the foot.
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Reducing the exorbitant senior corporate and senior executive salaries to the same level that these corporate people want pilots to work at, should solve all the airline profitability problems in one go.
There's at least one American ex-CEO, of one large Australian company who has retired very comfortably to the U.S. after extorting a "pension" of AU$1M annually from that company, for his retirement.
Naturally, it's payable to the day he dies, and no doubt it's indexed, too. This pension was in addition to all his other retirement benefits that came with his "salary package".
There's at least one American ex-CEO, of one large Australian company who has retired very comfortably to the U.S. after extorting a "pension" of AU$1M annually from that company, for his retirement.
Naturally, it's payable to the day he dies, and no doubt it's indexed, too. This pension was in addition to all his other retirement benefits that came with his "salary package".
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"Ex CC" that's common knowledge here anyway.
Tell us something we don't know:-)
The Airlines have been shooting themselves in the foot as you say for years, there's virtually no feet left to stand on & we are now seeing the feet that keep aviation on it's own legs being eaten away.
Two years ago now I started to prepare for the inevitable as personally I believe it's a good time to get ones affairs in order if you are employed as a pilot & that goes for engineers as well plus all the ancillary jobs that support the industry, something has to give soon & it won't be the fat cats at the top either!
Wmk2
Tell us something we don't know:-)
The Airlines have been shooting themselves in the foot as you say for years, there's virtually no feet left to stand on & we are now seeing the feet that keep aviation on it's own legs being eaten away.
Two years ago now I started to prepare for the inevitable as personally I believe it's a good time to get ones affairs in order if you are employed as a pilot & that goes for engineers as well plus all the ancillary jobs that support the industry, something has to give soon & it won't be the fat cats at the top either!
Wmk2
I find it very interesting that the US is still described as struggling economically, however over the past month United, Delta, Alaskan, American and Southwest have all announced substantial profits (the first such results for many years in most cases).
Meanwhile in Australia, where we are apparently riding the crest of the wave of a mining and construction boom (??), all of our airlines seem to be struggling.
Could it be -
Meanwhile in Australia, where we are apparently riding the crest of the wave of a mining and construction boom (??), all of our airlines seem to be struggling.
Could it be -
- over-capacity?
- over-regulation?
- or just "over"?
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Anyone remember the 90's??? If this keeps up something WILL break. I made a comment some years ago that "one day there would be A320 drivers 5 deep at the bar at the local aero club talking about a career in instructing", that may well eventuate.
SN
SN
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The aviation infra structure needs looking at as well. Having worked at Tulla it's a disgrace. I used to have to walk from Tulla to Airport West to get a tram.
But then airports aren't really interested in airlines. They're more interested in car parks, $8 coffees and duty free. Airlines and their demands for aerobridges, GSE parking and, what?? You want working ground power AND air con on the international bridges?? All this is simply a nuisance to the airport corporations because it's effectively a monopoly in every state: 1 capital city, 1 airport. So the airports have no desire to cater to the airlines because the airlines largely have no choice but to fly there and grit their teeth at paying exorbitant charges for s**t service and facilities.
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"E000" you hit the nail on the head there "1 Capitol City 1 Airport. Apart from Avalon Airport which really is a dead loss the Capitol City Airports have a monopoly & they know it. Captive market, wouldn't a lot of major businesses love to be in that situation!
Take a look at Tulla, the joke airport of the country. The taxiway improvements that have been going on since DC3's where designed are still being constructed at 1 cubic meter of concrete a month where as the new T4 & associated car-parking infrastructure is going up like gangbusters, they know where the $$$$ are! Although as a side note I heard the other day true or false that construction had halted on the T4 & car park due the toilet facilities had broken down & the union didn't want it's members having to walk up to the terminal to use the dunny's...gotta luv Australia!:-)
The status quo will continue for sometime yet with no foreseeable change in the future inc Badgery's Creek, that's so far off & likely to be a lemon if ever it's constructed that it doesn't even figure am sure in the Airlines next 10 yr planing model.
'SN' that's not as silly as it sounds!
Wmk2
Take a look at Tulla, the joke airport of the country. The taxiway improvements that have been going on since DC3's where designed are still being constructed at 1 cubic meter of concrete a month where as the new T4 & associated car-parking infrastructure is going up like gangbusters, they know where the $$$$ are! Although as a side note I heard the other day true or false that construction had halted on the T4 & car park due the toilet facilities had broken down & the union didn't want it's members having to walk up to the terminal to use the dunny's...gotta luv Australia!:-)
The status quo will continue for sometime yet with no foreseeable change in the future inc Badgery's Creek, that's so far off & likely to be a lemon if ever it's constructed that it doesn't even figure am sure in the Airlines next 10 yr planing model.
'SN' that's not as silly as it sounds!
Wmk2
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A bit of a thread drift but good point:
An enquiry into the airports is long over due. Monopoly gouging, lack of infrastructure at BNE, PER & SYD, just disgraceful.
Unless their charges and attitude towards the airlines improves there will be more corporate airline failures. Which is not good for any of us.
But then airports aren't really interested in airlines. They're more interested in car parks, $8 coffees and duty free. Airlines and their demands for aerobridges, GSE parking and, what?? You want working ground power AND air con on the international bridges?? All this is simply a nuisance to the airport corporations because it's effectively a monopoly in every state: 1 capital city, 1 airport. So the airports have no desire to cater to the airlines because the airlines largely have no choice but to fly there and grit their teeth at paying exorbitant charges for s**t service and facilities
Unless their charges and attitude towards the airlines improves there will be more corporate airline failures. Which is not good for any of us.
