Vincent in receivership !!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Perhaps you look at NZ CAA Part 121 Appendix C.1 for your absurd rule
Part 125, if memory serves. Less restrictive than the big boys, but still more regulated than low capacity GA.
Easy to overlook that kind of detail when moving from a more progressive country to a less progressive one.
4 Holer,
You are mixing up NZ Part 125 and FAR 125. Please get your facts straight before you stick it to somebody.
Have you noticed how Australia is going to handle this --- by regulating light aircraft charter almost per NZ Part 125, even though we are going to call it Part 135. And speaking of taxiways, CASR Part 135 aerodrome standards, alone, will eliminate most rural light aircraft charter as we have known it.
Tootle pip!!
You are mixing up NZ Part 125 and FAR 125. Please get your facts straight before you stick it to somebody.
Have you noticed how Australia is going to handle this --- by regulating light aircraft charter almost per NZ Part 125, even though we are going to call it Part 135. And speaking of taxiways, CASR Part 135 aerodrome standards, alone, will eliminate most rural light aircraft charter as we have known it.
Civil Aviation Rules Part 125 CAA Consolidation
1 April 2014 2 CAA of NZ
DESCRIPTION
Part 125 prescribes the operating requirements for air operations conducted
by a holder of an Airline Air Operator Certificate issued in accordance with
Part 119 using an aeroplane that has—
(1) a passenger seating configuration of 10 to 30 seats; or
(2) a payload capacity of 3410 kg or less and a MCTOW of greater
than 5700 kg; or
(3) a single engine and is carrying passengers under IFR.
1 April 2014 2 CAA of NZ
DESCRIPTION
Part 125 prescribes the operating requirements for air operations conducted
by a holder of an Airline Air Operator Certificate issued in accordance with
Part 119 using an aeroplane that has—
(1) a passenger seating configuration of 10 to 30 seats; or
(2) a payload capacity of 3410 kg or less and a MCTOW of greater
than 5700 kg; or
(3) a single engine and is carrying passengers under IFR.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
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sounds like Vincent OZ might have been a bit like Ansett, in that the Kiwis ripped as much out as they could before letting the Australian operation fall over.
It must be almost impossible chasing money over international borders.
It must be almost impossible chasing money over international borders.
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Not quite XPT... the smart-money with Centre-Bet is on the fact that brokers used, tried to "cream too much" from the operations, given BF put out at a very cheap rate in order to get work for their aircraft.
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1900D's are hard to run a profit on. Just when everything has been going along swimmingly for a few months, an unexpected hot section, or a planned undercarriage overhaul comes up and 6 months profits go down the toilet. Hawker/Beech/Textron/Uncletomcobillee or whatever they're called are making noises about getting their parts/service section sorted out. It's been a long, expensive time coming. Even the well run, professional 1900 operation in New Zealand has fallen foul of the parent company and is on shaky ground. Apparently, AirNZ Central thought they were going to make them a tidy profit...silly!
Why is it every arm chair pilot on this forum is such an expert on the economics of running aircraft.
My guess is very few have ever owned anything bigger than a Cherrokee.
Speaking as one that has owned(be it with a large loan) aircraft the equivalent of the SAAB the formulae is very simple.
To make money on any aircraft doing less than 1000 hours per year, you need to have low capital or leasing cost. I can tell you the punters cannot tell if the aircraft has 10k or 2k hours, just so long as the presentation is up to scratch and the payments low.
When you get to around the 2000 hours per year then you can afford newer aircraft.
This parameter gets better the higher the utilisation hours.
My guess is that Vincent's were in the never never land of around 1400 to 1600 per year with high lease payments. The only people making money were the aircraft leasing company, and they were paid up front and held a deposit against default.
My guess is very few have ever owned anything bigger than a Cherrokee.
Speaking as one that has owned(be it with a large loan) aircraft the equivalent of the SAAB the formulae is very simple.
To make money on any aircraft doing less than 1000 hours per year, you need to have low capital or leasing cost. I can tell you the punters cannot tell if the aircraft has 10k or 2k hours, just so long as the presentation is up to scratch and the payments low.
When you get to around the 2000 hours per year then you can afford newer aircraft.
This parameter gets better the higher the utilisation hours.
My guess is that Vincent's were in the never never land of around 1400 to 1600 per year with high lease payments. The only people making money were the aircraft leasing company, and they were paid up front and held a deposit against default.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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So why is this all CASA's fault or B1900 or Phfreds Whizbag 123.
2 + 2 ALWAYS = 4.
You can finangle the figures anyway you like.
You can play with "market penetration" until you're blue in the face.
You can even be a self proclaimed CASA Reg guru, but if the numbers don't work, the numbers don't work.
They didn't 2 or 3 years ago, its just amazing they lasted this long.
Pilots should be banned from the financial operating of aviation enterprises.
2 + 2 ALWAYS = 4.
You can finangle the figures anyway you like.
You can play with "market penetration" until you're blue in the face.
You can even be a self proclaimed CASA Reg guru, but if the numbers don't work, the numbers don't work.
They didn't 2 or 3 years ago, its just amazing they lasted this long.
Pilots should be banned from the financial operating of aviation enterprises.
casa has been known to issue narrow rwy ops exemptions before.
By the hundreds, mostly for high capacity RPT. Great idea, adopt ICAO rules (after decades of using the US rules) then issue hundreds of concessions, because the ICAO SARPs knock out so many aerodromes to the RPT fleet.
Tootle pip!!
PS:
Pilots should be banned from the financial operating of aviation enterprises.
Certainly pilots like you --- cast your mind back!!
NZ Herald this morning
Only two months ago, the council approved a last minute bid by the airline to start a passenger link between Masterton and Auckland - replacing the defunct Eagle Air service - and turning down a proposal by rival airline Air Chathams in the process.
The decision to back the Vincent Aviation bid came after the airline's managing director, Peter Vincent, spoke to all councillors at a closed door meeting and despite knowing that Vincent Aviation's Australian arm had gone into receivership.
Now, ANCL Investments Ltd has filed an application in the High Court at Wellington to liquidate the airline.
Failure by Vincent Aviation to start the service would be the latest in a long line of on-off attempts to sustain a successful passenger air service from Masterton.
The decision to back the Vincent Aviation bid came after the airline's managing director, Peter Vincent, spoke to all councillors at a closed door meeting and despite knowing that Vincent Aviation's Australian arm had gone into receivership.
Now, ANCL Investments Ltd has filed an application in the High Court at Wellington to liquidate the airline.
Failure by Vincent Aviation to start the service would be the latest in a long line of on-off attempts to sustain a successful passenger air service from Masterton.
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Air Chathams Convair 580 (50 seaters)?
If Vincent NZ wound up, surely it wouldn't be that difficult to start again from scratch.
There are still 2 x Saab 340B's parked at TSV up for sale or lease.
If Vincent NZ wound up, surely it wouldn't be that difficult to start again from scratch.
There are still 2 x Saab 340B's parked at TSV up for sale or lease.
