300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
Yes, and that's a far cry from the mid sixties load factor that Jetstar international is operating with.
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WTH has load factors at JQ and Ryanair have to do with "300 Qantas pilots to get the chop? " Tenuous at best.
It would appear that no QF pilots will be CR'ed at this time. Yes?
It would appear that no QF pilots will be CR'ed at this time. Yes?
Where they go of course is anyone's guess. The suspicion that some would be slated to go to mainline is boosted by the large surplus of pilots that will still be held after the current RIN process has finished.
There is no need to keep pilots in surplus if there is no need for them. They are a cost to the business and demoting them before CR negates the cost savings of demotion.
Where I think this is going:
* Pilots are being held in reserve in case the Board decides to exercise 787 options.
* A China Southern equity deal will be announced about two minutes before the record loss is announced.
* Some of the -9s will go to mainline.
* An attempt will be made to invoke the Stockholm syndrome to have the -9 flown on wages and conditions less than the Longhaul WD.
If none of the above happens in the next couple of months, further RINs/VR and CR will be announced by the end of the year.
If 787s ever fly in Qantas colours, they will be flown by Pilots on a new rate of pay and a simplified award.
They didnt give the first 787s to Jetstar for fun, it was done for a reason, to introduce the type within the Qantas group, on jetstar terms and conditions.
They didnt give the first 787s to Jetstar for fun, it was done for a reason, to introduce the type within the Qantas group, on jetstar terms and conditions.
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If the sole driver for your business is what you pay pilots then you have a big problem and will fail.
The 787's went to JQ for a multitude of reasons, none of which was the award under which they would be flown.
The 787's flown by QF may be flown under different conditions but not a different award. Might look like the one that the A330 was introduced on. Might look a little different. Won't look like the JQ one.
The 787's went to JQ for a multitude of reasons, none of which was the award under which they would be flown.
The 787's flown by QF may be flown under different conditions but not a different award. Might look like the one that the A330 was introduced on. Might look a little different. Won't look like the JQ one.
Capt Kremin
You are a quality contributor to this Forum
I believe history will show the above to be a most prescient post.
You are a quality contributor to this Forum
Where I think this is going:
* Pilots are being held in reserve in case the Board decides to exercise 787 options.
* A China Southern equity deal will be announced about two minutes before the record loss is announced.
* Some of the -9s will go to mainline.
* An attempt will be made to invoke the Stockholm syndrome to have the -9 flown on wages and conditions less than the Longhaul WD.
* Pilots are being held in reserve in case the Board decides to exercise 787 options.
* A China Southern equity deal will be announced about two minutes before the record loss is announced.
* Some of the -9s will go to mainline.
* An attempt will be made to invoke the Stockholm syndrome to have the -9 flown on wages and conditions less than the Longhaul WD.
A+ Capt Kremin
Top of the class Capt Kremin. I have been thinking along similar lines to yourself for a long while but haven't been able to tie together all of the clues as neatly and succinctly as you just have. Your scenario is the most logical way of tying all of the facts we know together into a coherent strategy.
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Looks like there's a power play going on in China.
A. China Southern with a potential equity in Qantas.
B. China Eastern launching the China United LCC based in Beijing.
C. China Eastern is the QF partner for the JQ Hong Kong Venture
D. Air China (has a cross share with Cathay), where Cathay has been fiercely opposed to JQ Hong Kong.
China Eastern & Southern are competitors, where the former is now setting up its own LCC & the third player (Air China) objects thru CX to the JQ HKG start up.
A. China Southern with a potential equity in Qantas.
B. China Eastern launching the China United LCC based in Beijing.
C. China Eastern is the QF partner for the JQ Hong Kong Venture
D. Air China (has a cross share with Cathay), where Cathay has been fiercely opposed to JQ Hong Kong.
China Eastern & Southern are competitors, where the former is now setting up its own LCC & the third player (Air China) objects thru CX to the JQ HKG start up.
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I think Cpt Kremlin has basically nailed it. There has to be a reason why we will continue to carry surpluses if there is no requirement for us in the future, but the T&Cs will be different than current LH conditions, I think what the 330 was introduced under would be palatable. Probably more closer to a 767 hourly rate i would guess.
The elephant in the room though is what will QF do with the Partnership with EK and will that be dissolved to then Hub through Shanghai or Guangzhou with our new partner?
It would certainly make more sense to have a fleet of 787s flying into a hub in asia than just two 380s flying into the Middle east.
Interesting times ahead but things do indicate that once this record loss is announced come 24/8 the miraculous turn around will begin.
Fingers and toes crossed!
The elephant in the room though is what will QF do with the Partnership with EK and will that be dissolved to then Hub through Shanghai or Guangzhou with our new partner?
It would certainly make more sense to have a fleet of 787s flying into a hub in asia than just two 380s flying into the Middle east.
Interesting times ahead but things do indicate that once this record loss is announced come 24/8 the miraculous turn around will begin.
Fingers and toes crossed!
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"Interesting times ahead but things do indicate that once this record loss is announced come 24/8 the miraculous turn around will begin."
... And after that the company will be happy to carry a surplus to retain an international operation that universally through its awards, pays approximately a 100% premium on wages, which cost the business hundreds of millions of dollars.......
If anyone in Qantas international needs any more indication, the latest "splitting the business" leaks shows it is all over via a multi-move coup de gras.
To suggest the company is keeping a surplus to allow for future expansion on long haul awards (any of them) is clutching at straws. The actuaries, who were fed the grand plan inputs from the consultants, have written it all in the stars.
The CEO remains until his promises to the big boys have been fulfilled.
The plan is unfolding........ For the pilots; leave if you're on the long haul award and have anywhere to go.
... And after that the company will be happy to carry a surplus to retain an international operation that universally through its awards, pays approximately a 100% premium on wages, which cost the business hundreds of millions of dollars.......
If anyone in Qantas international needs any more indication, the latest "splitting the business" leaks shows it is all over via a multi-move coup de gras.
To suggest the company is keeping a surplus to allow for future expansion on long haul awards (any of them) is clutching at straws. The actuaries, who were fed the grand plan inputs from the consultants, have written it all in the stars.
The CEO remains until his promises to the big boys have been fulfilled.
The plan is unfolding........ For the pilots; leave if you're on the long haul award and have anywhere to go.
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If anyone in Qantas international needs any more indication, the latest "splitting the business" leaks shows it is all over via a multi-move coup de gras.
Firstly, Qantas would only split the business and duplicate the Virgin model ONLY if the 100% foreign ownership restrictions were lifted. Purely because it is a to expensive exercise to only attract 49% foreign investment. Under Virgins structure they comply with the air navigations act internationally and ownership laws domestically, they don't have a sales act that restricts foreign ownership on their share registry so they can go to 100%.
The Air navigation act isn't the issue in QF's case. QF's issue is that the QSA only allows a foreign entity to own 49% of Qantas PTY LTD on the share registry, so it doesn't matter how many companies QF split into only 49% on the registry can be purchased and that 49% would cover all the individual segments that QF had split into. To emulate Virgin from this point in time wouldn't be impossible but would be time consuming and way to expensive to contemplate considering the right downs and losses already rumoured for this year. To me this won't be the road the current management will follow.
So to me the only real options for QF is to show significant future growth, profit and the books balanced and in the black to attract cashed up foreign entities.
Enter the Chinese Carriers and my guess is that we will see the 787s in the not to distant future with Red tails and current QF pilots at the helm, T&Cs will be the only unknown.
So no matter how much of a bitter pill it is for some on here to see QF international continue in the future and the mainline pilots to have a job, QF group needs the INT arm just as much as it needs DOM,the regionals and a LCC.
Qf is a 4 legged table, if one of the legs breaks the whole lot will fall over.
........ For the pilots; leave if you're on the long haul award and have anywhere to go.
What about selling off FF. I gather it would be a separate listed company? Does the 49% come into that? Possibly if still classified as a subsidiary?
What if QF domestic was listed as a separate company "Qantas Domestic Ltd"? Not a subsidiary but a separate entity that Qantas Airways Limited completely sold off.
I don't think the Sales Act deals with this - selling off entire units of the company.
What if QF domestic was listed as a separate company "Qantas Domestic Ltd"? Not a subsidiary but a separate entity that Qantas Airways Limited completely sold off.
I don't think the Sales Act deals with this - selling off entire units of the company.
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Oh yes, you're right, everything is going to be just fine..... Just go about complaining about the new hotel in LA, and the consultants will look after your career. Trust them.
I never said anything about copying Virgin. I think it's going to be worse than that, but unless you've signed an xxxxx consulting confidentiality clause, we're all guessing.....
Ask yourself though, what do you think they will do when they value the unit output of a 20 year old cadet at Jetstar earning $70,000 as much as a A380 FO in mainline earning $300,000. The new rate for a second officer at Jetstar in their new EBA is $55,000 , a qantas a380 second officer earns $230,000. Etc etc etc.
With a 1 billion dollar loss coming, I think there will be changes. They will have carte blanche. They are very experienced in "transforming" businesses.
I never said anything about copying Virgin. I think it's going to be worse than that, but unless you've signed an xxxxx consulting confidentiality clause, we're all guessing.....
Ask yourself though, what do you think they will do when they value the unit output of a 20 year old cadet at Jetstar earning $70,000 as much as a A380 FO in mainline earning $300,000. The new rate for a second officer at Jetstar in their new EBA is $55,000 , a qantas a380 second officer earns $230,000. Etc etc etc.
With a 1 billion dollar loss coming, I think there will be changes. They will have carte blanche. They are very experienced in "transforming" businesses.
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Why don't we move management to India. It would save a bucket load of money and they couldn't do any worse than the muppets we have now. Maybe the new CEO would speak better English than the current. No wonder we haven't seen him since the shut down of the airline. Everyone associates the brand damage to Qantas with the leprechaun.
It looks like there will be jobs for the unwanted QF Pilots & Engineers
Boeing Forecasts Rising Demand for Commercial Pilots and Technicians(ASD News)
1.1 million new airline pilots, technicians needed worldwide over next 20 years
Asia Pacific, Middle East show strongest demand, most rapid growth
Boeing (NYSE: BA) is forecasting continued strong growth in demand for commercial aviation pilots and maintenance technicians as the global fleet expands over the next 20 years.
Boeing's 2014 Pilot and Technician Outlook, released today at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh, projects that between 2014 and 2033, the world's aviation system will require:
533,000 new commercial airline pilots
584,000 new commercial airline maintenance technicians
"The challenge of meeting the global demand for airline professionals cannot be solved by one company or in one region of the world," said Sherry Carbary, vice president, Boeing Flight Services. "This is a global issue that can only be solved by all of the parties involved—airlines, aircraft and training equipment manufacturers, training delivery organizations, regulatory agencies and educational institutions around the world."
The 2014 outlook projects continued increases in pilot demand, which is up approximately 7 percent compared to 2013; and in maintenance training, which increased just over 5 percent. Pilot demand in the Asia Pacific region now comprises 41 percent of the world's need, and the Middle East region saw significant growth since last year's outlook due to increased airline capacity and orders for wide-body models which require more crew members.
Overall, the global demand is driven by steadily increasing airplane deliveries, particularly wide-body airplanes, and represents a global requirement for about 27,000 new pilots and 29,000 new technicians annually.
Projected demand for new pilots and technicians by global region:
Asia Pacific – 216,000 pilots and 224,000 technicians
Europe – 94,000 pilots and 102,000 technicians
North America – 88,000 pilots and 109,000 technicians
Latin America – 45,000 pilots and 44,000 technicians
Middle East – 55,000 pilots and 62,000 technicians
Africa – 17,000 pilots and 19,000 technicians
Russia and CIS – 18,000 pilots and 24,000 technicians
1.1 million new airline pilots, technicians needed worldwide over next 20 years
Asia Pacific, Middle East show strongest demand, most rapid growth
Boeing (NYSE: BA) is forecasting continued strong growth in demand for commercial aviation pilots and maintenance technicians as the global fleet expands over the next 20 years.
Boeing's 2014 Pilot and Technician Outlook, released today at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh, projects that between 2014 and 2033, the world's aviation system will require:
533,000 new commercial airline pilots
584,000 new commercial airline maintenance technicians
"The challenge of meeting the global demand for airline professionals cannot be solved by one company or in one region of the world," said Sherry Carbary, vice president, Boeing Flight Services. "This is a global issue that can only be solved by all of the parties involved—airlines, aircraft and training equipment manufacturers, training delivery organizations, regulatory agencies and educational institutions around the world."
The 2014 outlook projects continued increases in pilot demand, which is up approximately 7 percent compared to 2013; and in maintenance training, which increased just over 5 percent. Pilot demand in the Asia Pacific region now comprises 41 percent of the world's need, and the Middle East region saw significant growth since last year's outlook due to increased airline capacity and orders for wide-body models which require more crew members.
Overall, the global demand is driven by steadily increasing airplane deliveries, particularly wide-body airplanes, and represents a global requirement for about 27,000 new pilots and 29,000 new technicians annually.
Projected demand for new pilots and technicians by global region:
Asia Pacific – 216,000 pilots and 224,000 technicians
Europe – 94,000 pilots and 102,000 technicians
North America – 88,000 pilots and 109,000 technicians
Latin America – 45,000 pilots and 44,000 technicians
Middle East – 55,000 pilots and 62,000 technicians
Africa – 17,000 pilots and 19,000 technicians
Russia and CIS – 18,000 pilots and 24,000 technicians
short flights long nights
I must say the little guy has been very vey very quiet of late. It is almost like he has been removed from the loop.
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Perhaps, but not really his style. He has probably jetted away to somewhere safe on a private charter with all of his spin doctors working on the next line of ****e to explain how it is everyone else's fault but his and his grand plan (which ever version) failed because of union and pilot demands.
Lets just hope that there are some decent journos who are going to go through all his past spin line by line and ask him questions about each and every piece of it.
Lets just hope that there are some decent journos who are going to go through all his past spin line by line and ask him questions about each and every piece of it.