300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
So I guess the fools at Jetstar, Virgin, Tiger, cobham, network etc are all inferior to the Qantas pilots?
None of them (including Qantas) require a HSC. They all require MORE hours than Qantas for direct entry cadetships aside.
What a stupid pissing contest.
Qantas pilots do the easiest flying, have the most support and the longest turns to correct any mistakes. The other pilots doing 25 min turns, more sectors, class G etc must be pretty piss poor!
As for Jetstar command training being quicker, of course! Most guys already were captains and just warmed the right seat for a few years. The Qantas guys were mostly cadets or came into the company with very basic experience. Generally their first multi crew command was at Qantas.
None of them (including Qantas) require a HSC. They all require MORE hours than Qantas for direct entry cadetships aside.
What a stupid pissing contest.
Qantas pilots do the easiest flying, have the most support and the longest turns to correct any mistakes. The other pilots doing 25 min turns, more sectors, class G etc must be pretty piss poor!
As for Jetstar command training being quicker, of course! Most guys already were captains and just warmed the right seat for a few years. The Qantas guys were mostly cadets or came into the company with very basic experience. Generally their first multi crew command was at Qantas.
Last edited by Blueskymine; 16th Jul 2014 at 19:48.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again, looking from outside Aus what a lot of nastiness amongst fellow pilots.
Something to do with the Australian psyche and the microscopic size of our industry perhaps?
The lack of professional cohesion and petty infighting is a management industrial wet dream...
PG
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Sorry , I am confused ... when did this become a pi$$ing contest ..."
About 100 years ago. There just wasnt anyone to P!$$ on until the last decade.
"Command Training program at Qantas takes over six months."
Most airlines can take an experienced 20 year pilot and train them up to command in much less than 6 months. You guys have a lot of noddy's in the training department who would be better placed teaching orbital dynamics than airline piloting.
About 100 years ago. There just wasnt anyone to P!$$ on until the last decade.
"Command Training program at Qantas takes over six months."
Most airlines can take an experienced 20 year pilot and train them up to command in much less than 6 months. You guys have a lot of noddy's in the training department who would be better placed teaching orbital dynamics than airline piloting.
Mstr Caution
Why is a six month Command Course a good thing, are QF F/O's standards so poor? During my time in BA if command on Type, 4 sims total, 2 practice 1 for IR 1 for Route Check. Min 10 sectors route training, done. (If required more sim /route training could be given, usually not required)
If not on type, TR Course, up to 20 sectors route training. 3 months if no delays.
PS We used to hear with some amazement at the time, that the Cathay Command Course was six months. Lots of Aussie training management there too, so that explains it!!
If not on type, TR Course, up to 20 sectors route training. 3 months if no delays.
PS We used to hear with some amazement at the time, that the Cathay Command Course was six months. Lots of Aussie training management there too, so that explains it!!
Last edited by cessnapete; 16th Jul 2014 at 22:07.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cessnapete.
AnQrKa's statement sums it up. Until there is change in senior training management, things wont change.
Hence my statement, the training department was asked if subsidiaries are an equivalent standard. Why are the QF courses scheduled over a longer period of time.
It has nothing to do with the quality of the candidate & everything to do with legacy ideals.
QF like to "check" people to within an inch of their life.
AnQrKa's statement sums it up. Until there is change in senior training management, things wont change.
Hence my statement, the training department was asked if subsidiaries are an equivalent standard. Why are the QF courses scheduled over a longer period of time.
It has nothing to do with the quality of the candidate & everything to do with legacy ideals.
QF like to "check" people to within an inch of their life.
I would put it to you that the relatively small number of antagonistic posters on Pprune (who are often only here for just that reason) are not representative of A, NZ & P readers and writers, who in turn are a small percentage of the total number of pilots plying their trade from an Australian base.
Not surprisingly, many Australian pilots have Parents, Brothers, sisters, other relatives, mates and even husbands, wives and partners who are employed by a business competitor to their own employer. My observations are a general professional respect amongst Australian pilots, no matter who's uniform they're wearing.
Our respect of our own and our competitor's management and their business practices can, however, be less than cordial.
Yes, there' some banter and sometimes outright vitriol here on Pprune, but that is not reflective of the pilot group as a whole in my opinion.
Enjoy what you do, no matter the challenges. I'm certainly gunna be trying.
Not surprisingly, many Australian pilots have Parents, Brothers, sisters, other relatives, mates and even husbands, wives and partners who are employed by a business competitor to their own employer. My observations are a general professional respect amongst Australian pilots, no matter who's uniform they're wearing.
Our respect of our own and our competitor's management and their business practices can, however, be less than cordial.
Yes, there' some banter and sometimes outright vitriol here on Pprune, but that is not reflective of the pilot group as a whole in my opinion.
Enjoy what you do, no matter the challenges. I'm certainly gunna be trying.
So let me get this straight… some lurker picks up half conversations from a couple of J* pilots having a private conversation down at the pub, allegedly making disparaging remarks about Qantas pilots. And rather than growing a pair and confronting them, he sees fit to run to the nearest computer and get on a public internet forum and start bagging out all Jetstar pilots. Others then jump in, and in the space of a few short posts we have in summary:
Jetstar pilots-
Have a LCC culture and mentality – which apparently means they will never successfully work in a QF uniform (funny, given a vast number of them came from Q link or mainline).
Have a different (lower) recruitment standard.
Have a lower psych test standard.
Fly non sanctions procedures.
Undergo substantially less command training.
I could go on – especially if I visit other pages.
When you boil down all this vitriol; all that is really being said is that Jetstar pilots are of a lesser / worse / inferior standard when compared to a Qantas pilot.
No worries. Thanks for your underwhelming opinion of us, and you wonder why Jetstar pilots find it hard to empathise with you given the crap position you now find yourself in. Incidentally, I rarely see any Jetstar pilot cast such a negative assessment of a Qantas (or virgin / tiger / skywest / alliance / Cobham / Qlink / rex) pilots’ standard or professional ability.
KM
Jetstar pilots-
Have a LCC culture and mentality – which apparently means they will never successfully work in a QF uniform (funny, given a vast number of them came from Q link or mainline).
Have a different (lower) recruitment standard.
Have a lower psych test standard.
Fly non sanctions procedures.
Undergo substantially less command training.
I could go on – especially if I visit other pages.
When you boil down all this vitriol; all that is really being said is that Jetstar pilots are of a lesser / worse / inferior standard when compared to a Qantas pilot.
No worries. Thanks for your underwhelming opinion of us, and you wonder why Jetstar pilots find it hard to empathise with you given the crap position you now find yourself in. Incidentally, I rarely see any Jetstar pilot cast such a negative assessment of a Qantas (or virgin / tiger / skywest / alliance / Cobham / Qlink / rex) pilots’ standard or professional ability.
KM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cairns
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kiethy
Because the JQ ranks are filled from such companies (except VA,TT) and know themselves to which the high standard they operate. 
Qantas (or virgin / tiger / skywest / alliance / Cobham / Qlink / rex) pilots’ standard or professional ability.
Last edited by myshoutcaptain; 17th Jul 2014 at 00:02. Reason: addition
Stating the fact that jetstar has lower entry requirements/ less stringent checking or training programs does not imply that the pilots are of a lower standard. It is merely a fact about the organisation. Chip...shoulder
Incidentally, I rarely see any Jetstar pilot cast such a negative assessment of a Qantas (or virgin / tiger / skywest / alliance / Cobham / Qlink / rex) pilots’ standard or professional ability.
.........I guess that is what I was implying a couple of posts ago.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 400 Orchard Rd
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
outside limits
Yes, you could start with the return sectors.
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 18………14 spare seats
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 19………11 spare seats
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 18………10 spare seats
Not sure who the Idiot is?
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 18.........63 spare seats
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 19 .........99 spare seats.
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 20 .........122 spare seats
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 19 .........99 spare seats.
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 20 .........122 spare seats
Should I continue ?
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 18………14 spare seats
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 19………11 spare seats
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 18………10 spare seats
Not sure who the Idiot is?
outside limits
Quote:
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 18.........63 spare seats
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 19 .........99 spare seats.
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 20 .........122 spare seats
Quote:
Should I continue ?
Yes, you could start with the return sectors.
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 18………14 spare seats
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 19………11 spare seats
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 18………10 spare seats
Not sure who the Idiot is?
On a 335 seat aircraft that means load factors of
July 18 90%
July 19 86%
July 20 83%
I have assumed this is operated by a 787. For a low cost carrier these are not fabulous figures. For May jetstar international load factor from the Qantas figures was 66% and that anyway you look at it is awful and unsustainable.
Quote:
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 18.........63 spare seats
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 19 .........99 spare seats.
JQ 37 SYD-Bali July 20 .........122 spare seats
Quote:
Should I continue ?
Yes, you could start with the return sectors.
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 18………14 spare seats
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 19………11 spare seats
JQ38 DPS-SYD July 18………10 spare seats
Not sure who the Idiot is?
On a 335 seat aircraft that means load factors of
July 18 90%
July 19 86%
July 20 83%
I have assumed this is operated by a 787. For a low cost carrier these are not fabulous figures. For May jetstar international load factor from the Qantas figures was 66% and that anyway you look at it is awful and unsustainable.
LCC's require load factors in excess of 90% on each and every flight including muffin sales to make any profit at all, due to their low margins...basic economics! This is why Jetstar had a staff travel sale, to get the load factors up to hide the problem. These load factors are unsustainable any way you look at it!
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C441,
Spot on! I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately those same types just don't want to hear it. It's always the same blokes. You generally don't even need to read who posted it to know who did.
Spot on! I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately those same types just don't want to hear it. It's always the same blokes. You generally don't even need to read who posted it to know who did.
