300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???

[waren9]

why were the MEL 787 slots not available under the MOU??

not all of the blue shirt team are on it yet?

[Iron Bar]

Master Caution is spot on. Especially about the hypothetical possibility of a sale. (Not intended as a rumour just speculation)

[moa999]

CaptCloudBuster,

The J lounge in LAX is not exactly suddenly 'new'. It had been planned for many years as part of the TBIT renovations - and is a shared oneworld lounge, although Qantas has led its design and development, and is being staffed by Sofitel, like other Qantas lounges.
A further new F lounge will open in 2015.
Qantas Los Angeles LAX business lounge - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

The old LAX lounge was way too small, getting pretty rundown and had horrible WiFi - so this new lounge was very much needed - star alliance, Korean/skyteam and Emirates also have brand new lounges in the TBIT terminal...


On a move you might however applaud - Qantas has done away with Chauffer Drive on services to/from the United States
Qantas axes chauffeur drive service for Los Angeles, Dallas flights - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller
citing 'low demand'....

Funnily enough they don't have the same 'low demand' on Dubai/London services, perhaps 'low competition' might be more like it.

[Mstr Caution]

I don't wanna be telling you JQ guys & girls what to do.

But QF should have included the vacancies advertised in mainline as available for MOU bidding.

Yeah, I get it. No one is interested in an A330 SO slot or B737 FO position.

But it sets a precedent that vacancies aren't advertised in accordance with the MOU.

You might not want what's currently on offer, but A380 FO or B737 Command might be a little more desirable a few years down the track if AJ hasn't trashed the joint.

The silence from Mainline guys is also deafening. If you are junior its in your interest to ensure the current slots are advertised via MOU. If the slot isn't filled by a QF Ghost Number held by the MOU transfer the Ghost number is subsequently deleted.

The numbers could be quite significant as a result of residual vacancies available from B737 FO & SO positions.

I can see why Mainline hasn't advertised slots in accordance with the MOU. As FO's are parked on the 737 due pilot surpluses. It creates residuals that would be available for MOU bidding. If the slots aren't filled. It will cause significant removal of Ghost Numbers on the Q Seniority list.

I don't make the rules. But they are written in black & white.

A380 SO in MEL or SYD anyone? They'll pay you more than JQ A320 Command to do it?

MC

[Boomerang]

MC I think the deletion of slots is for Command vacancies only, from what I've read of the MOU. That said, I only skimmed it as I am not eligible anyway.

[Blueskymine]

I don't know anyone silly enough at JQ to go to QF for an SO slot even it it did pay more money.

The top 120 guys on the seniority list are flying widebodies or are very senior on the A320.

This means they are based where they want to be, flying what they want to fly, bidding for the leave that they feel is appropriate to them.

These guys are mostly older now. They don't want to sit up the back watching a couple of geriatrics talking about how unfair the world is.

PS the 787s were not offered under the MOU because the Q numbers are now very junior. The most the seniority will get is an Adelaide A320 command. Melbourne and Sydney are overcrewed and it'll be some years before Q numbers have the seniority to go there.

If you bid under the MOU for JQ Adelaide, expect a couple of years at least there.

PSS most of the Qantas MOU pilots have QR'd. Mustn't be too bad in the evil empire.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

I agree, there needs to be transparency in this whole MOU process, All slots advertised. The group pilots should have the freedom to make their own choice of career path, not left with what is filtered down as leftovers.

But I'm sure it would not suit the companies agenda to have pilot groups co- operating together on the MOU for the benefit of all it's pilots which just goes totally against the BCG school of management 101, divide and conquer.

Expect nothing to change.

[Mstr Caution]

Blueskymine.

I totally agree with your observations regarding the senior JQ crew not wishing to transfer to QF.

However, there is still an agreed MOU in place.

Boomerang.

I stand corrected. You are right. The ghost number is deleted only for commands not filled.

MC.

[Popgun]

I don't wanna be telling you JQ guys & girls what to do.

But QF should have included the vacancies advertised in mainline as available for MOU bidding.

Yeah, I get it. No one is interested in an A330 SO slot or B737 FO position.

But it sets a precedent that vacancies aren't advertised in accordance with the MOU.

You might not want what's currently on offer, but A380 FO or B737 Command might be a little more desirable a few years down the track if AJ hasn't trashed the joint.

The sentiment here is certainly sound. But....the MOU applies now to such a small minority of JQ pilots. (about 120 out of 8-900)

If the document was amended to be inclusive of ALL pilots (both JQ and QF) then this suggestion might gain more traction.

I very much doubt, however, that amendments to the document will be forthcoming anytime soon.

I think there is probably a lot more effort being put into possible MOU eradication (by the JPC) as opposed to amendment...especially involving the AFAP faction.

PG

[Oldmate]

Popgun, agree with most of your post, however the MOU does not cover all QF pilots. Same as Jetstar, it covers all pilots employed in either entity before 2004.

[Tuner 2]

I understand that AIPA is entirely willing to work on a new MOU that makes movements easier for all Qantas and Jetstar pilots.

Is the JPC? Or do they just want to kill it off? Maybe they will make another botched attempt to outsmart everyone (oops!) like this:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/c...2013/9388.html

[Iron Bar]

Ahhhh the much vaunted JPC and "AFAP faction". Perhaps the faction will avoid further embarrassment and instead concentrate on getting a reasonable EBA up. (I think they may have worked out the MOU ain't going anywhere)

[Transition Layer]

Popgun,

The sentiment here is certainly sound. But....the MOU applies now to such a small minority of JQ pilots. (about 120 out of 8-900)

If the document was amended to be inclusive of ALL JQ pilots (just as it includes ALL QF pilots) then this suggestion might gain more traction.

As stated above, the MOU doesn't apply to any QF pilots joining after 2004. Arguably these are the pilots who need the ability to transfer the most, as the threat of redundancies hangs over their heads.

Plenty of these junior QF guys have gone to JQ, but they aren't under the MOU. They've all joined at the bottom of the JQ list on a LWOP arrangement from QF.

[Cunning_Stunt]

expressions of interest closed this arvo at 5pm. latest I heard was in the low twenties.

[leakyboats]

Funny enough, the base freeze and tying the disputed numbers up in court prevented all MOU movement for the last 2 ½ years. A good strategy and result if you ask me. At the very least it was reciprocal for those 2 years.

Plenty of blokes got commands in that time, and because they got commands, it opened up plenty of A330 / 787 FO spots too.

[Denied Justice]

I have never understood why Jetstar pilots won't bite the bullet and form their own union that would have 1000+ members.

Instant elimination of inter union politics + a single and much more formidable platform.

Use professional negotiators to sort out the next EBA.

Problem solved.

Negotiators from unions with opposing agendas will never match the power of a united front.

[Boomerang]

DJ I agree with the last line of your post, but that's it.

There is one Australian pilots union, the AFAP. Some pilots had the thought that you had, and decided to start their own pilot union, to suit only their agenda, that's AIPA. Now there are other companies wanting to be part of that union (Virgin, and other QF group) so that idea is being diluted, and conflicting agendas lead to the issues we have now.

What nobody needs is another pilot union. (Can JQ NZ join, or JQ Aus pilots in NZ?)

You already have split memberships for personal reasons (AFAP,AIPA,TWU) and non-membership. You'll never get 1000 members.

And there's the matter of IFALPA membership. Not a trivial matter.

Best if AIPA bowed out and provided Australian pilots with a united front ;-) (settle down boys)

[Tuner 2]

If the AFAP is so great then why was VIPA formed and and why did it take hundreds and hundreds of VA members? If AIPA is so anti Jetstar pilots why does it still have hundreds of JQ members? Yeah, so the AFAP advertises the MBF as a big reason to join, we don't hear so much about the amazing industrial results like losing legal challenges to destroy MOU agreements made well before self-interested pilots even joined JQ, do we?

[Con Catenator]

At the risk of thread drift,

You already have split memberships for personal reasons (AFAP,AIPA,TWU) and non-membership. You'll never get 1000 members.

The only reason there are split memberships is because there is no consolidated Jetstar Pilot Union.

Back to the topic.....

[The The]

On another forum you will see some distinct cracks forming in the QF pilot solidarity front.

Looks like AIPA might be spending more and more time holding their own line together. Just what the Company wants!