300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
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Stop brown nosing Jack and go and look for a job, Keg has thoroughly enjoyed taking a dump on the Jetstar pilots over the years - "sh*t money" "sh*t money" you are all on.
Jetstar Pilots currently earn SIGNIFICANTLY less than:
Widebody:
Qantas Longhaul Pilots
V Aus Pilots
Cathay Pilots
BA Pilots
Any Number of Commuting Contracts
…and the list could go on...
Narrow Body:
Qantas Shorthaul Pilots
Virgin Australia Pilots
VARA (Skywest) A320 Pilots
Tigerair Pilots
aaaaand from July 1 2015 (at least, if not already this year);
National Jet/Cobham Pilots (Both 717 AND 146 Contracts).
-Add to that, that Jetstar F/O's are currently earning less than Alliance F100
F/Os.
-In addition to THAT, their overnight allowances are less that ALL of these
operators.
OH! And they work harder for it!!
So, I guess it comes down to what an individual defines as 'Sh!t Money'… if you are comparing to others in the same industry then, well, Keg has a point.
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The problem with the salaries is that your company is going broke, and you are well overpaid in comparison with your competitors. So the company and their iconic pilots is attempting to fleabag on Australian taxpayer funds to sustain wages that are unsustainable.
And wages that massively overpay the skills and qualifications of the individuals.
The course to become a Qantas SO takes 12 months at Flight Training Adelaide , and is a vocational level course that any average year 12 grad who was motivated enough would have no issues completing.
And wages that massively overpay the skills and qualifications of the individuals.
The course to become a Qantas SO takes 12 months at Flight Training Adelaide , and is a vocational level course that any average year 12 grad who was motivated enough would have no issues completing.
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"The course to become a Qantas SO takes 12 months at Flight Training Adelaide, and is a vocational level course that any average year 12 grad who was motivated enough would have no issues completing".
So said Northie.
Hmmm!...but this is a course that you have never made the grade on Northie!
So said Northie.
Hmmm!...but this is a course that you have never made the grade on Northie!
Flyboat,
I won't touch on the cadet issue too much, but having been involved in recruitment in the past I would say that you are right in the sense that the minimum qualifications to get on the course are yr 12 graduation, but let's say that you and 1,000 other people have that. How would you stand out from the crowd of other people trying to get the position? You need something more than that. And yes these course applications (when previously open) were massively oversubscribed every time. It takes a lot more than just year 12 graduation. The same is also true for direct entry positions.
As for salaries, in the current environment there is no doubt that the A380 QF LH pay sits high on the list no matter with which metric you choose to measure it. However, this was negotiated at a time when QF had posted a $1B profit and all fleets (with the exception of the A330 for reasons previously touched on numerous times here) were working max hours. This was an agreement between QF and AIPA. Not QF, AIPA and Flyboats North. Why does it offend you so much when you didn't, haven't and never will have skin in the game?
Most pilots received the standard 3% pay increases (after offsets were given) at the time. The majority of QF pilots are not on anything like the sort of money you quote here, so you can surely understand why people are not overly friendly to you here when you 'storm into town' and criticise with a wide tar brush.
Finally, I don't know what drives you to deliberately strike a nerve and criticise those whom you have never met, but maybe it is time to get a little perspective and pull your head in.
I won't touch on the cadet issue too much, but having been involved in recruitment in the past I would say that you are right in the sense that the minimum qualifications to get on the course are yr 12 graduation, but let's say that you and 1,000 other people have that. How would you stand out from the crowd of other people trying to get the position? You need something more than that. And yes these course applications (when previously open) were massively oversubscribed every time. It takes a lot more than just year 12 graduation. The same is also true for direct entry positions.
As for salaries, in the current environment there is no doubt that the A380 QF LH pay sits high on the list no matter with which metric you choose to measure it. However, this was negotiated at a time when QF had posted a $1B profit and all fleets (with the exception of the A330 for reasons previously touched on numerous times here) were working max hours. This was an agreement between QF and AIPA. Not QF, AIPA and Flyboats North. Why does it offend you so much when you didn't, haven't and never will have skin in the game?
Most pilots received the standard 3% pay increases (after offsets were given) at the time. The majority of QF pilots are not on anything like the sort of money you quote here, so you can surely understand why people are not overly friendly to you here when you 'storm into town' and criticise with a wide tar brush.
Finally, I don't know what drives you to deliberately strike a nerve and criticise those whom you have never met, but maybe it is time to get a little perspective and pull your head in.
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Cadet entry for the back half of the 1990s well if memory serves me correct you could only actually apply if you had relatives inside Qantas, that would be from 95 to nearly 2000. So in fact you were not competing against 1000s of people in a lot of cases you were competing against really very few people for a place, because applications were not open to the public.
So let's not pretend that NASA was out here looking at the candidates that Qantas were also considering because as we know it just didn't happen that way, and they didn't in fact have a "whole lot more" than standard year 12 graduates. Because they were really just bog standard year 12 graduates who had the good fortune to have a relative within Qantas, and nothing more & nothing less than bog standard year 12 grads.
All Australian taxpayers have "skin in this game" & I would prefer $3 bill to go to things such as foreign aid , disabled people etc , education. & you nearly got the dough, Hockey was dumb enough to give it you, wanting to be the big business man making the big calls. Fortunately his bluster & BS got called by his party.
Aside from that if you guys can find managers dumb enough to pay you $600 /700K a year, well the very best of luck to you. Just don't parasite on the australian taxpayer to remain oh so iconic, I sure didn't see the AIPA release any media statement saying they opposed taxpayers subsidizing Qantas.
What arrogance Qantas displayed in even making the request.
Oh and you know the $ 1 Billion profit that you all keep talking about that was in FY 2008, everyone made money then, the last of the boom years.
So let's not pretend that NASA was out here looking at the candidates that Qantas were also considering because as we know it just didn't happen that way, and they didn't in fact have a "whole lot more" than standard year 12 graduates. Because they were really just bog standard year 12 graduates who had the good fortune to have a relative within Qantas, and nothing more & nothing less than bog standard year 12 grads.
All Australian taxpayers have "skin in this game" & I would prefer $3 bill to go to things such as foreign aid , disabled people etc , education. & you nearly got the dough, Hockey was dumb enough to give it you, wanting to be the big business man making the big calls. Fortunately his bluster & BS got called by his party.
Aside from that if you guys can find managers dumb enough to pay you $600 /700K a year, well the very best of luck to you. Just don't parasite on the australian taxpayer to remain oh so iconic, I sure didn't see the AIPA release any media statement saying they opposed taxpayers subsidizing Qantas.
What arrogance Qantas displayed in even making the request.
Oh and you know the $ 1 Billion profit that you all keep talking about that was in FY 2008, everyone made money then, the last of the boom years.
Idiot boat person
The cadet scheme was advertised externally and internally. Many sons of senior pilots were not accepted and are now flying elsewhere. Children of other staff were, people unconnected with Qantas were accepted.
If you didn't tick the boxes you didn't get in- that simple
The cadet scheme was advertised externally and internally. Many sons of senior pilots were not accepted and are now flying elsewhere. Children of other staff were, people unconnected with Qantas were accepted.
If you didn't tick the boxes you didn't get in- that simple
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It really actually wasn't that simple.
The program was not open to public until 2000, just relatives or great friends of the iconic ones who were invited to apply.
I don't think it is any great secret that plenty of Sons of captains & senior managers went into a building in Coward Street that is opposite a Hotel after hours for a little practice of the said test. Heard a lot of them needed five full runs through it till they finally got the pass grades.
Qantas Pilots - the best of the best.
The program was not open to public until 2000, just relatives or great friends of the iconic ones who were invited to apply.
I don't think it is any great secret that plenty of Sons of captains & senior managers went into a building in Coward Street that is opposite a Hotel after hours for a little practice of the said test. Heard a lot of them needed five full runs through it till they finally got the pass grades.
Qantas Pilots - the best of the best.
Dear QF pilots,
Please understand that you are not the first pilots to be possibly made redundant and you won't be the last.
Also, please understand that you are not the first pilots within the 'group' to be made redundant. Unbelievably, there was a business successfully making money up until 2001 that was also cast aside with AN pilots leading to a huge glut of pilot supply. Thankfully those pilots sucked it up and accepted demotions and massive pay drops to avoid the long queue of pilots at centre link. Whilst you may feel sexually violated..... The reality is that the company is solvent and VR's are still on the table.
Sit back and think about those your peers who were faced with QF managers/ receivers who gave them no option. The hysteria that I read here is unbelievable. Like most private enterprises, well paid jobs are privilege, not a god given right! When the music stops, maybe some of you need to stop and say 'I made hay whilst the sun shone' not some of the pathetic drivel I have read.
And be grateful that there a jobs out there for qualified pilots, not like 2001 when a certain middle eastern gentleman decided to pay a visit to the US and put pilots worldwide on the unemployed list!
Please understand that you are not the first pilots to be possibly made redundant and you won't be the last.
Also, please understand that you are not the first pilots within the 'group' to be made redundant. Unbelievably, there was a business successfully making money up until 2001 that was also cast aside with AN pilots leading to a huge glut of pilot supply. Thankfully those pilots sucked it up and accepted demotions and massive pay drops to avoid the long queue of pilots at centre link. Whilst you may feel sexually violated..... The reality is that the company is solvent and VR's are still on the table.
Sit back and think about those your peers who were faced with QF managers/ receivers who gave them no option. The hysteria that I read here is unbelievable. Like most private enterprises, well paid jobs are privilege, not a god given right! When the music stops, maybe some of you need to stop and say 'I made hay whilst the sun shone' not some of the pathetic drivel I have read.
And be grateful that there a jobs out there for qualified pilots, not like 2001 when a certain middle eastern gentleman decided to pay a visit to the US and put pilots worldwide on the unemployed list!
When you guys quote anything that idiot posts it violates the integrity of my ignore list. I really don't want to be exposed to it, even second hand.
On edit: add friendly little smiley emoticon.
But I am serious.
On edit: add friendly little smiley emoticon.
But I am serious.
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Why the question - you didn't make it as an airline pilot ??
Very puzzled as to why it seems so many on this forum seem to regard that as some kind Mt Everest of achievement
The academics are of a vocational type level, V brief & thin in depth, CPL accas can be done in seven weeks ATPL six , - that is like a whole three months of academics at TAFE level to do airline pilot tech stuff - all exams multi guess.
Really likely not even TAFE level , perhaps year 11 ? Really just very brief and cursory description level teaching about aircraft tech. But the depth of knowledge is really very very light.
Wow wee !!
I think I will go out now and Have a Beer.
Very puzzled as to why it seems so many on this forum seem to regard that as some kind Mt Everest of achievement
The academics are of a vocational type level, V brief & thin in depth, CPL accas can be done in seven weeks ATPL six , - that is like a whole three months of academics at TAFE level to do airline pilot tech stuff - all exams multi guess.
Really likely not even TAFE level , perhaps year 11 ? Really just very brief and cursory description level teaching about aircraft tech. But the depth of knowledge is really very very light.
Wow wee !!
I think I will go out now and Have a Beer.
I really did try to find a middle ground of logic and reason in your arguments FBN. Most have given up on you long ago. I guess Mark Twain was right...
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Those that know me know that I give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
"Click"!
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
"Click"!
Fourteen months ago Fly boat north wrote
Then 12 months ago
Also 12 months ago on a thread about becoming an Air NZ S/O
Then this about joining the virgin cadetship
Then 11 months ago this about a Cathay cadetship
Eight months ago when he made this post about the pass rates at the virgin cadetship he was obviously not happy with the choices virgin made when choosing their cadets
I wouldn't be in a rush to take him too seriously 
Hold a CPL and wish to complete MECIR which flying schools in Melbourne area currently have this approval, my understanding is that Oxford and TVSA currently are signed off. Does anyone know the mechanisms/rules of doing training under VET in terms of could you do it part time etc ? Any other schools got the tick in the box yet ?
I know this has been asked , just couldn't find the thread.
As we know there is a fast track method of conversion via TTMRA.
The thread I saw mentioned some "mountain awareness" training maybe ten hours that would have to be done for an Aust CPL to convert to NZ CPL.
As we know there is a fast track method of conversion via TTMRA.
The thread I saw mentioned some "mountain awareness" training maybe ten hours that would have to be done for an Aust CPL to convert to NZ CPL.
Do Australians have to first convert from a CASA licence to a NZ licence prior to lodging an application ?
Or can this be done once an offer is made ?
Or can this be done once an offer is made ?
How accurate is the PATS website in saying HECS debt of $75K plus company loan of $40K which you are required to pay back from year 1 - meaning first year of training or work.
So incur a debt of $115K - that is just for the FTA part ? What about aircraft endorsements etc , more $$ you have to pay or bond ?
So incur a debt of $115K - that is just for the FTA part ? What about aircraft endorsements etc , more $$ you have to pay or bond ?
Is the advanced program open now to non HKID holders or not. When you look at the cadet recruitment website it says HK only.
Is this actually correct - I knew the ab-initio was HKID only - and quite correct doing that I think.
If advanced is now open to HKID only - does anyone know when or if this restriction might be lifted.
Tried contacting company directly , never respond to an email, never answer a phone call
Is this actually correct - I knew the ab-initio was HKID only - and quite correct doing that I think.
If advanced is now open to HKID only - does anyone know when or if this restriction might be lifted.
Tried contacting company directly , never respond to an email, never answer a phone call
Great pass rate in the first cohort of 8.
Only six remaining , a pass rate which can at best be a whole 75%
Whoo - Hoooo ; keep up the magnificent work Virgin , what a super selection you made.
Only six remaining , a pass rate which can at best be a whole 75%
Whoo - Hoooo ; keep up the magnificent work Virgin , what a super selection you made.
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FloatPlane South, that's why he's in Melbourne, his username is just a reverse play, Pity the weather is so crap down there...
Now disregarding all that, what is the latest regarding QF. Pilot numbers?
Now disregarding all that, what is the latest regarding QF. Pilot numbers?