300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
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But to benchmark Qantas labor costs against 2 airlines while ignoring the other 45 competitors is completely pointless.
I also understand your desire to lump all 'labor' together. If you argued about skilled and unskilled labor, you might gain more traction- however, I suspect you realise this would be unpalatable to many Australians. Whilst the 'amercanisation' of Australia continues apace, we are not there yet (thankfully).
As what that has to do with selling houses- you've lost me (poorest attempt at a straw man I've seen in a while. )
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Just ignore The Professor.
Despite the name, after reading his/her posts sequentially it is quite obvious he/she failed first year Argument & Critical Reasoning at Uni.
Fly, fly away little Professor............
Despite the name, after reading his/her posts sequentially it is quite obvious he/she failed first year Argument & Critical Reasoning at Uni.
Fly, fly away little Professor............
On the contrary. The " Professor "is giving us the benefit of his valuable consulting insights for free! Worth every penny.
When I read "where I live and consult" in his last excretion it all became clear. Another Bain & Co agitprop specialist. Or second rate facimile therof.
When I read "where I live and consult" in his last excretion it all became clear. Another Bain & Co agitprop specialist. Or second rate facimile therof.
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“45 years of strikes would also prove it”
Not necessarily. Industrial action is often an indication that the balance of power lies with the employer, not the organized labor group. To see second officers enjoying the ridiculous conditions they do for the meager operational return they provide the company following no strike action “in 45 years” is ample evidence of where the power lies.
Not necessarily. Industrial action is often an indication that the balance of power lies with the employer, not the organized labor group. To see second officers enjoying the ridiculous conditions they do for the meager operational return they provide the company following no strike action “in 45 years” is ample evidence of where the power lies.
I can just imagine the various Qantas CEO's over the last 45 years sitting in their leather chairs shivering in abject fear over a confrontation with those big, scary, POWERFUL Union blokes who have them cowered in the corner. How the airline has managed to survive at all is remarkable given those circumstances!
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whether you agree with professor or not, i gotta say he/she argues with a dispassionate clarity most others on here do not match. doesnt seem to get personal either. that i've read.
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A laundry list of the demands placed upon shift workers such as pilots. But the market is compensating you for these hardships and if your labor is not being utilized to your satisfaction you should not offer it for sale as clearly you are not happy with the return!
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why not all hand in your resignation? maybe this time it works.
maybe not, but at least i i will be bored for the next 15 years listening about how bad everyone was treated, and never one mention about personal stupidity accepting a decree by an outdated union.
maybe not, but at least i i will be bored for the next 15 years listening about how bad everyone was treated, and never one mention about personal stupidity accepting a decree by an outdated union.
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“low pilot wages and adverse safety outcomes were in no way related”
Which market are you referring to when formulating this conclusion?
“This despite the findings of the final report into Colgan Air Flight 3407.”
The 46 NTSB findings of the Colgan crash made no reference to low pilot salary contributing to the crash.
A quick look at the last decade of aircraft accidents and write offs here in the US indicate quite the opposite where the majority of events have occurred at carriers in the highest percentile of pilot wages and benefits. SWA/AAL/FDX/UPS.
“You simply need to accept…..”
No, I don’t simply need to accept anything and neither should you. Your opinion should be formed following research and analysis, not following the urging of someone to “simply accept”.
“….pilot pay is not a driver of airline success.”
Correct, I have not suggested this to be the case in all situations. Qantas will struggle to survive in its present form even with radical labor reform. It will fair a little better but will not guarantee its success. But the business still has imperatives that include cutting labor costs; no responsible business manager would overlook this, especially in a legacy carrier where there is plenty of room to move. As I have said before, the accountants at Qantas would be looking at Jetstar and asking: what exactly are we getting for our dollar that is worth paying such a premium for?
“I understand you desperatelywant to connect high wages for pilots with the problems at QF”
No, I don’t. I want you to understand that labor costs at an airline are vitally important especially at legacy carriers. This is NOT simply my opinion.
Ramius/Australo/hempy/ratpoison.
If you cant put forth an intelligent contribution then why don’t you just sit out for a while?
Which market are you referring to when formulating this conclusion?
“This despite the findings of the final report into Colgan Air Flight 3407.”
The 46 NTSB findings of the Colgan crash made no reference to low pilot salary contributing to the crash.
A quick look at the last decade of aircraft accidents and write offs here in the US indicate quite the opposite where the majority of events have occurred at carriers in the highest percentile of pilot wages and benefits. SWA/AAL/FDX/UPS.
“You simply need to accept…..”
No, I don’t simply need to accept anything and neither should you. Your opinion should be formed following research and analysis, not following the urging of someone to “simply accept”.
“….pilot pay is not a driver of airline success.”
Correct, I have not suggested this to be the case in all situations. Qantas will struggle to survive in its present form even with radical labor reform. It will fair a little better but will not guarantee its success. But the business still has imperatives that include cutting labor costs; no responsible business manager would overlook this, especially in a legacy carrier where there is plenty of room to move. As I have said before, the accountants at Qantas would be looking at Jetstar and asking: what exactly are we getting for our dollar that is worth paying such a premium for?
“I understand you desperatelywant to connect high wages for pilots with the problems at QF”
No, I don’t. I want you to understand that labor costs at an airline are vitally important especially at legacy carriers. This is NOT simply my opinion.
Ramius/Australo/hempy/ratpoison.
If you cant put forth an intelligent contribution then why don’t you just sit out for a while?
Last edited by The Professor; 25th May 2014 at 18:17. Reason: double sentence
I think all good airlines are constantly trying to gain productivity and cut costs even during good times. I suspect Qantas has not had its eye on the ball with this regard especially following the collapse of Ansett where market share and money were handed to them and cost control took a back seat for a while.
Southwest for example treat every year as a crisis year in focusing on cost, even when making gobs of cash. Its a little neive for pilots at major carriers like QF to think they will be left alone as the world changes around them.
Southwest for example treat every year as a crisis year in focusing on cost, even when making gobs of cash. Its a little neive for pilots at major carriers like QF to think they will be left alone as the world changes around them.
Thats the point thats missed at Qf! Every successful business looks at each year as a crisis.
Staff at Qf are sick of seeing ridiculous wastage of hard won assets with no undertanding of what these precious resources are by the people throwing them away.
The entire Jetstar experiment is the ultimate example of incredible waste. Staff understand how much work has been put in to even have the assets to rape and destroy. Management see these resources as theirs to gamble with and waste. They are NOT airline people so dont recognise the difference between 'asset' and 'wastage'. Or.... They dont care. Either way, staff are justifiably sick of the wanton destruction.
Seriously - what business has EVER been able to buy brand new commercial assets to IMMEDIATELY store them at a cost of $4m a MONTH. And thahs just an obvious example, day to day examples are treating valuable routes that took years of negotiation to achieve rights on, being squandered in days like a drunken sailor in a brothel after months at sea. The systematic destruction is epic and truly appalling.
You have absolutely hit the nail on the head....
Staff at Qf are sick of seeing ridiculous wastage of hard won assets with no undertanding of what these precious resources are by the people throwing them away.
The entire Jetstar experiment is the ultimate example of incredible waste. Staff understand how much work has been put in to even have the assets to rape and destroy. Management see these resources as theirs to gamble with and waste. They are NOT airline people so dont recognise the difference between 'asset' and 'wastage'. Or.... They dont care. Either way, staff are justifiably sick of the wanton destruction.
Seriously - what business has EVER been able to buy brand new commercial assets to IMMEDIATELY store them at a cost of $4m a MONTH. And thahs just an obvious example, day to day examples are treating valuable routes that took years of negotiation to achieve rights on, being squandered in days like a drunken sailor in a brothel after months at sea. The systematic destruction is epic and truly appalling.
You have absolutely hit the nail on the head....
Nunc est bibendum
The entire Jetstar experiment is the ultimate example of incredible waste.
Hey Consultant...
When this becomes a forum for non-pilots to opine on relative salaries then I will bow out. What has incited you so? My disdain for consultants? My distaste for agitprop?
You are advancing a narrow argument about pilot pay, insisting that until we are paid the lowest common salary we are the problem.
Do your clients actually pay you to sing that one-note song?
As has been amply revealed to you, Qantas management have failed in just about every initiative they have attempted. The core business has no plans for routes or fleet. As you point out, even if we worked for nothing there would be no guarantee of success. So why would I accept lower T & Cs? So that Joyce could then argue for a bigger bonus?
I am not a Qantas lifer...and I do see many areas for improvement. I used to point out the gross inefficiencies that were evident, but over the last decade or so working for looters I stopped caring. The current and former CEO taught me well: grab as much as you can with both hands and blame the other guy.
For those who are not familiar with "agitprop", look it up. It is a method of swaying public opinion first developed by the early Soviets. It is in widespread use today, inciting outrage by yelling half-truths, then dividing opinion with what appears to be a reasoned counter argument. Fox News/Rush Limbaugh do this for the Koch Brothers. The Professor is attempting it for Clifford.
When this becomes a forum for non-pilots to opine on relative salaries then I will bow out. What has incited you so? My disdain for consultants? My distaste for agitprop?
You are advancing a narrow argument about pilot pay, insisting that until we are paid the lowest common salary we are the problem.
Do your clients actually pay you to sing that one-note song?
As has been amply revealed to you, Qantas management have failed in just about every initiative they have attempted. The core business has no plans for routes or fleet. As you point out, even if we worked for nothing there would be no guarantee of success. So why would I accept lower T & Cs? So that Joyce could then argue for a bigger bonus?
I am not a Qantas lifer...and I do see many areas for improvement. I used to point out the gross inefficiencies that were evident, but over the last decade or so working for looters I stopped caring. The current and former CEO taught me well: grab as much as you can with both hands and blame the other guy.
For those who are not familiar with "agitprop", look it up. It is a method of swaying public opinion first developed by the early Soviets. It is in widespread use today, inciting outrage by yelling half-truths, then dividing opinion with what appears to be a reasoned counter argument. Fox News/Rush Limbaugh do this for the Koch Brothers. The Professor is attempting it for Clifford.
Last edited by Australopithecus; 25th May 2014 at 23:19.
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Removing any emotion from the period of 1989 - a strategic union decision for its' members to resign en masse strips away any legal negotiating power.
It is simply not an option.
It is simply not an option.
Second hand but $1.6 billion over the last decade according to Hickey who let the number drop.
Imagine what could have been...
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Second hand but $1.6 billion over the last decade according to Hickey who let the number drop.
Hrdlicka says the group has generated more than $1 billion in profit
Virgindriver...she did say that. The penalty for lying in this case is zero, but the rewards may include becoming the next CEO.
Also...Qantas has refused to fully open the books to legal internal funds transfer, property transfers, fees and charges paid by the International division etc.
Within the context of the market, it is only group guidance that must be accurate or have plausible deniability.
Also...Qantas has refused to fully open the books to legal internal funds transfer, property transfers, fees and charges paid by the International division etc.
Within the context of the market, it is only group guidance that must be accurate or have plausible deniability.
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The professor might care to re-read the Colgan Air 3407 report after removing his ideological blinkers.
An identified causal factor in the accident was the crew's commuting induced fatigue. 68% of Newark based Colgan pilots, including the two involved in the accident, were commuters. The reason for such a high proportion of commuters: the high cost of residing in the Newark area combined with the low wages company pilots received.
An identified causal factor in the accident was the crew's commuting induced fatigue. 68% of Newark based Colgan pilots, including the two involved in the accident, were commuters. The reason for such a high proportion of commuters: the high cost of residing in the Newark area combined with the low wages company pilots received.
It is very difficult to explain extreme tiredness to people who don't fly. If you haven't experienced something yourself you cannot have an understanding of it.
Even Niki Lauda's experience of it was not long term and haphazard. Sure, if you turn up to do a long back of the clock flight once every month it is not a problem, but doing at least 3 or 4 every week for say 5 years has a very different effect.
Even Niki Lauda's experience of it was not long term and haphazard. Sure, if you turn up to do a long back of the clock flight once every month it is not a problem, but doing at least 3 or 4 every week for say 5 years has a very different effect.
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I love the spin..."is aligned with package offered executives".
Typical.
"We will treat you like executives, when it costs us less"
"Jetstar is a separate airline, unless it suits us to treat it otherwise".
Typical.
"We will treat you like executives, when it costs us less"
"Jetstar is a separate airline, unless it suits us to treat it otherwise".