First Canberra, now Hobart
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Didn't QF inherit the 717s from Impulse? Didn't think it was a conscious decision to acquire them. When Impulse got them the EMB135/145 were the rage of the day and C605s, etc for RJs. Since they're a MD product I'd suspect they got a good deal on them since MD was one foot in the grave in those days.
Even so they could have sold the silly things but since I'm not a math grad or a bean counter who knows what Mngt was thinking other than 'too expensive'.
Even so they could have sold the silly things but since I'm not a math grad or a bean counter who knows what Mngt was thinking other than 'too expensive'.
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Qantas has leased/returned and released a number of 717 over the years so the current "flock" will consist of aircraft from a number of sources apart from the original 5? Impulse.By the time Qantas /Impulse received the aircraft they were from Boeing, not MD hence the B717 model number.The story at the time was that Impulse got a very good deal. Impulse then poached a number of key CASA staff which helped them set up quickly and also caused delays to Virgins setup as CASA had to recruit first before they could audit Virgin. Impulse had all the marks of a genuine startup so its an interesting question as to if GM genuinely wanted to run an airline or if he intended to sell it on from the beginning?
I also flew on a 717 Hobart Sydney in 2002 and it was branded Qantas, not Qantaslink and it was days old at the time.Previously the route was operated by NJ with a Bae 146.
Fuel Off, I was at AIPA central as an Exec during the period that you refer too. My memory of the day do not reflect what you say and nowhere would there have been a statement about tainting talent on my watch.My memory of the events are very different to your version. Where you at those negotiations or did you only get the TS version? I seem to remember 3 Associations, AIPA,AFAP and the APA?
Wunwing
I also flew on a 717 Hobart Sydney in 2002 and it was branded Qantas, not Qantaslink and it was days old at the time.Previously the route was operated by NJ with a Bae 146.
Fuel Off, I was at AIPA central as an Exec during the period that you refer too. My memory of the day do not reflect what you say and nowhere would there have been a statement about tainting talent on my watch.My memory of the events are very different to your version. Where you at those negotiations or did you only get the TS version? I seem to remember 3 Associations, AIPA,AFAP and the APA?
Wunwing
Last edited by Wunwing; 15th Jan 2014 at 03:31.
Well said Fuel-Off.
Remember guys, play nice. QF is the enemy, not each other.
Don't forget, there are plenty of guys who started off with NJS years ago and "inherited" the QF contract. Maybe they should have quit when the QF contract came along. And as for the new guys, I am sure if QF actually hired someone in the last umpteen years, they would be working there instead.
Also, do any 717 knockers here care to make specific comparisons to other 115-125 seat short haul airliners? Keen to know where she falls short compared to an equivalent.
Remember guys, play nice. QF is the enemy, not each other.
Don't forget, there are plenty of guys who started off with NJS years ago and "inherited" the QF contract. Maybe they should have quit when the QF contract came along. And as for the new guys, I am sure if QF actually hired someone in the last umpteen years, they would be working there instead.
Also, do any 717 knockers here care to make specific comparisons to other 115-125 seat short haul airliners? Keen to know where she falls short compared to an equivalent.
Cloudsurfing,
You are absolutely correct, one heavy landing 6 years ago definitely means that more are on the way when cobham starts flying into Hobart, because everybody knows that only mainline are good enough to land there....
And if your past experience flying on a "cute jet" were so "crappy" would you care to share what made it that way?
You are absolutely correct, one heavy landing 6 years ago definitely means that more are on the way when cobham starts flying into Hobart, because everybody knows that only mainline are good enough to land there....
And if your past experience flying on a "cute jet" were so "crappy" would you care to share what made it that way?
Sure, no worries....
Crap seats, crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax, broken tray tables, constantly late departures, and calling themselves 'qantaslink' with a little 'operated by cobham' on the boarding pass!
Interesting cloudsurfer. Not really a comparison between anything. Never mind.
You seem to be a fairly astute fellow, do you care to share with us how you would manage the cobham "problem"? Would you prefer your organisation take all the flying back?
Have you conveyed your concerns to QF management? You know AJ probably doesn't pprune don't you? Any way, good luck to you
You seem to be a fairly astute fellow, do you care to share with us how you would manage the cobham "problem"? Would you prefer your organisation take all the flying back?
Have you conveyed your concerns to QF management? You know AJ probably doesn't pprune don't you? Any way, good luck to you
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The Boarding pass is issued by Qf check in. You can blame them for that . Not Cobham. As for the other complaints I have experienced all of the above on other Aussie domestic carriers and some international legacy carriers too.
Yet another Cobham/ QFlink/ 717 thread plummets down to a primary school standard whinging match.
Yet another Cobham/ QFlink/ 717 thread plummets down to a primary school standard whinging match.
Crap seats, crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax, broken tray tables, constantly late departures, and calling themselves 'qantaslink' with a little 'operated by cobham' on the boarding pass!
Last edited by RENURPP; 15th Jan 2014 at 19:48.
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same crap different thread. Qantas staff whinging they are getting shafted by the system that they have helped to create. Don't hate the player, hate the game. You all don't care if you are taking anyones jobs. Didn't see anyone helping out the ansett guys. Boo too to you.
As for the 717, excellent aircraft that can be applied to many routes in Aus and will fit a good hole between the Dash 8 & NG.
Cobham 717 Captain pay $160K, QF 737 Captain pay $230K
Cobham 717 CSM pay $70K, QF 737 CSM pay $110K
Cobham 717 Engineer $105K, QF 737 Engineer $130+
enough said.
As for the 717, excellent aircraft that can be applied to many routes in Aus and will fit a good hole between the Dash 8 & NG.
Cobham 717 Captain pay $160K, QF 737 Captain pay $230K
Cobham 717 CSM pay $70K, QF 737 CSM pay $110K
Cobham 717 Engineer $105K, QF 737 Engineer $130+
enough said.
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Also, do any 717 knockers here care to make specific comparisons to other 115-125 seat short haul airliners?
On an hourly basis they would be pretty close to an F100, but has 14 or 15 more seats.
On a CASK comparison the 717 also stacks up pretty well. The 717 would be about 10% more expensive than an ERJ 190, but 12% less than an F100.
I can't comment on runway performance, but would guess the F100 and ERJ would be better.
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Cobham 717 Captain pay $160K, QF 737 Captain pay $230K
So let me get this straight,
A Cobham 717 in the new config 12 business, 98 economy, total 110 pax
vs
A Qantas 737-800 12 business, 156 economy, total 168 pax.
As opposed to the flight crew on Cobham where a skipper earns $160k
vs
at Qantas where a Skipper earns $230K.
If my math is correct that's about a 4% advantage to the Qantas skipper per seat is it not??
Probably less with the massive surplus in Short Haul now, and the corresponding lack of hours, putting some doubt on the $230k assertion!
We'll be ROONED said Hanrahan (or insert the name of another Irish spanner as appropriate!)
So let me get this straight,
A Cobham 717 in the new config 12 business, 98 economy, total 110 pax
vs
A Qantas 737-800 12 business, 156 economy, total 168 pax.
As opposed to the flight crew on Cobham where a skipper earns $160k
vs
at Qantas where a Skipper earns $230K.
If my math is correct that's about a 4% advantage to the Qantas skipper per seat is it not??
Probably less with the massive surplus in Short Haul now, and the corresponding lack of hours, putting some doubt on the $230k assertion!
We'll be ROONED said Hanrahan (or insert the name of another Irish spanner as appropriate!)
First Canberra, now Hobart
I reckon the MD-95 (for that is what the B717 is) is great, as long as I'm not in one of those 1 in 5 "middle" seats. Then again, no middle seats is the Embraer.
Interesting cloudsurfer. Not really a comparison between anything. Never mind.
You seem to be a fairly astute fellow, do you care to share with us how you would manage the cobham "problem"? Would you prefer your organisation take all the flying back?
Have you conveyed your concerns to QF management? You know AJ probably doesn't pprune don't you? Any way, good luck to you
You seem to be a fairly astute fellow, do you care to share with us how you would manage the cobham "problem"? Would you prefer your organisation take all the flying back?
Have you conveyed your concerns to QF management? You know AJ probably doesn't pprune don't you? Any way, good luck to you
Now, am I naive enough to believe that EVERY Ejet service is as good as the ones I had, or that EVERY 717 service is as bad as the multiple experiences Ive had? Of course not. But...FROM MY EXPERIENCES, the 717 operation was rubbish.
The 'Cobham problem' you say? You consider yourself a problem? Im sure you're expecting a typical jaded 'eff you all, give us our flying back'. I hate to disappoint, but not so.
Imagine a world where you were employed by Qlink. You do their flying, so why not? Imagine world where the current Qlink pilots had the opportunity to move to a jet. Or a world where a Cobham FO could have a crack at a dash command. Imagine having full QF staff travel benefits. A seniority list arrangement somewhat like the good parts of the A/Q merger. Imagine a world where the flying wasn't farmed out to the lowest possible bidder, where the company can't keep going back and forth from pilot group to pilot group saying 'but they'll do it for less". (Isn't that how the 717 arrangement started initially??)
I can stick to the hating profile if you like, but the above would be my 'solution' in an ideal world...
You are a misinformed idiot i'm afraid. I suspected so before your lats post, now I am sure.
Thank you, I must remember to make sure my comments suit you, or else I will continue to incur the wrath of your character assessments.
I am pleased to see that you believe any passenger who has a bad experience on your 717 is a misinformed idiot. I don't see many QF/VA/JQ/TT crew jumping on here defending their airline with vigour when a passenger makes a complaint about a bad experience. In fact, most of the time, they would probably agree!
So next time I get on any aeroplane and something doesn't work, or the staff are rude to not just me, but everyone within earshot (and therefore I assume everyone on the aircraft), I must remember the valuable piece of advice that I got from you. 'Nope, this tray table aint broken....I must be a misinformed idiot.'
"Nope, im not late, it must be my watch. Nope, it can't be my watch...Im just a misinformed idiot"
But please....continue...
First Canberra, now Hobart
Don't start me with QF staff travel benefits. My step-son swans around in business class because his (just recent) girlfriend's mother works in QF catering! Pu-leeeeeeeeeesssse?
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Cloudsurfer,
Just to fill you in on my last trip on QF mainline business class (and no this wasn't staff travel or duty travel), we departed 15 minutes late due to a U/S APU, my tray table was also broken, I then had a F/A drop the pot off coffee
In the aisle which went all over my suit pants and didn't even receive an apology of any sort, my partner who requires a gluten free meal
Didn't receive it because the caterers hadn't loaded it and low and behold once we arrived at our destination the APU wouldn't start again so we sat at the bay for 10 minutes while they came up with plan B..... So please, continue with your stories of why qantas is so great, can do no wrong, whilst every body else is inferior....
Just to fill you in on my last trip on QF mainline business class (and no this wasn't staff travel or duty travel), we departed 15 minutes late due to a U/S APU, my tray table was also broken, I then had a F/A drop the pot off coffee
In the aisle which went all over my suit pants and didn't even receive an apology of any sort, my partner who requires a gluten free meal
Didn't receive it because the caterers hadn't loaded it and low and behold once we arrived at our destination the APU wouldn't start again so we sat at the bay for 10 minutes while they came up with plan B..... So please, continue with your stories of why qantas is so great, can do no wrong, whilst every body else is inferior....
Cloudsurfer,
Just to fill you in on my last trip on QF mainline business class (and no this wasn't staff travel or duty travel), we departed 15 minutes late due to a U/S APU, my tray table was also broken, I then had a F/A drop the pot off coffee
In the aisle which went all over my suit pants and didn't even receive an apology of any sort, my partner who requires a gluten free meal
Didn't receive it because the caterers hadn't loaded it and low and behold once we arrived at our destination the APU wouldn't start again so we sat at the bay for 10 minutes while they came up with plan B..... So please, continue with your stories of why qantas is so great, can do no wrong, whilst every body else is inferior....
Just to fill you in on my last trip on QF mainline business class (and no this wasn't staff travel or duty travel), we departed 15 minutes late due to a U/S APU, my tray table was also broken, I then had a F/A drop the pot off coffee
In the aisle which went all over my suit pants and didn't even receive an apology of any sort, my partner who requires a gluten free meal
Didn't receive it because the caterers hadn't loaded it and low and behold once we arrived at our destination the APU wouldn't start again so we sat at the bay for 10 minutes while they came up with plan B..... So please, continue with your stories of why qantas is so great, can do no wrong, whilst every body else is inferior....
Thanks for the story...as I said...we agree!! That sh&t happens to our full fare/platinum etc pax too often and needs to stop! YOU asked me for my experience, I told you!!
Twofifty...so unless Im mistaken, your step sons recent girlfriends mum has already listed him as her Group A? How else would he get staff travel? Must be serious then.....
Last edited by cloudsurfng; 15th Jan 2014 at 10:48. Reason: tsk tsk...name calling....
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Fuel-off,
Nice story, however how do you explain the ex dash guys now Captains in mainline.
It was not that simple, "some" Eastern and Southern pilots thought they should have datal seniority in mainline.
Wasn't going to happen, didn't, time to move on.
Nice story, however how do you explain the ex dash guys now Captains in mainline.
It was not that simple, "some" Eastern and Southern pilots thought they should have datal seniority in mainline.
Wasn't going to happen, didn't, time to move on.
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Tankengine,
I'm not clinging on to nostalgia. All I'm trying to do is conjure discussion about how to improve our current situation by learning from the past. Rose coloured glasses maybe, but I'd like to think there could be some common good out there.
And yes, those Eastern blokes kinda needed a dose of reality while insisting on datal seniority. Clearly by your response...(defeatist) that any improvement will be blown out of the water, not by management, but by pilots themselves.
We are indeed our own worst enemy.
Back in my box...
Fuel-Off
I'm not clinging on to nostalgia. All I'm trying to do is conjure discussion about how to improve our current situation by learning from the past. Rose coloured glasses maybe, but I'd like to think there could be some common good out there.
And yes, those Eastern blokes kinda needed a dose of reality while insisting on datal seniority. Clearly by your response...(defeatist) that any improvement will be blown out of the water, not by management, but by pilots themselves.
We are indeed our own worst enemy.
Back in my box...
Fuel-Off
My step-son swans around in business class because his (just recent) girlfriend's mother works in QF catering! Pu-leeeeeeeeeesssse?
Well the 'wrinkle' comment was supposed to be tongue in cheek....I guess as a gen x I haven't quite got the hang of emoti-thingies.
Sure, no worries....
Crap seats, crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax, broken tray tables, constantly late departures, and calling themselves 'qantaslink' with a little 'operated by cobham' on the boarding pass!
Sure, no worries....
Crap seats, crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax, broken tray tables, constantly late departures, and calling themselves 'qantaslink' with a little 'operated by cobham' on the boarding pass!
Tray tables are a problem. Poor design I suggest. I write up tray tables fairly regularly. What do you suggest Cobham do? I know what Qantas could do if they chose to. Have you travelled in a QLink dash 8 recently. Now they certainly need some attention within.
Regarding crew that couldn't give a s@$t about the pax. I flew mainline with my young daughter over the weekend and the service in business was atrocious. I wasn't on staff travel therefore as far as the CC were aware I was a fare paying passenger. The point being there are good and bad customer service people in all the branches of QF. qantas send people on various flights to monitor the performance of the cabin crew, I suggest they are more than happy with what they see. If you were really dissatisfied with the service you received, I expect you submitted a report?
Constantly late departures. I suggest you look at the on time record for all parts of the Qantas group and Airlink will surprise you with its performance. Having said that aircraft are delayed for several reasons, maintenance, catering ATC, weather, crew and the list goes on. Most of these are outside of the control of Cobham, i.e. the pax really only become a Cobham issue once they are on the aircraft. QF look after checkin, bus transfers etc etc etc.
Maintenance is generally a QF issue. They accept responsibility for most maintenance issue delays. Therefore if your flight is delayed, and out of Perth thats not uncommon who are you blaming?
You sound like a sour little man with a misguided agenda, find out the facts before you write such rubbish.
Imagine a world where you were employed by Qlink. You do their flying, so why not?
Or a world where a Cobham FO could have a crack at a dash command.
A large percentage of the F/Os come from the command turbo prop command background, i.e. Rex, Sunstate/Eastern, etc with others from the military Hercs, fast jets, some 737 guys. It is unsual to fly with an F/O who would like to go back to a Dash command, if they did they could transfer to Coast-watch, they pay better than Sunstate/Eastern in any case. (I think)
Maybe idiot was incorrect, fool or ignoramus looks a better fit.
An idiot, dolt, or dullard is an intellectually disabled person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. Archaically the word mome has also been used. The similar terms moron, imbecile, and cretin have all gained specialized meanings in modern times. An idiot is said to be idiotic, and to suffer from idiocy. A dunce is an idiot who is specifically incapable of learning. An idiot differs from a fool (who is unwise) and an ignoramus (who is uneducated/an ignorant), neither of which refers to someone with low intelligence.
Last edited by RENURPP; 15th Jan 2014 at 19:59.
You will notice that in none of my posts did I 'play the man'. I simply made comment (my opinion, which I'm entitled to) about the 717 Operation. You can argue until you're blue in the face, until I travel and have a good experience....my opinion will remain the same.
I pity you in the fact that you could not continue yours without resulting to personal attacks on others with opposing views.
You seem to have made a rapid assessment of me, perhaps that says even more about you.
I pity you in the fact that you could not continue yours without resulting to personal attacks on others with opposing views.
You seem to have made a rapid assessment of me, perhaps that says even more about you.
